From tyagi@bjt.net Thu Dec 5 17:09:52 1996 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21324 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:09:49 -0500 Received: by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA29847; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:52:55 -0800 To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Path: kudo!tyagi Date: 5 Dec 96 21:48:30 GMT Message-ID: Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.order Subject: Babalon and Love in Thelema Approved: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com Followup-To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra,talk.religion.misc From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (xiwangmu) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (xiwangmu) Status: O [originally-to: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org; followups targetted] 49961121 AA1 E6 Lainie Petersen: #> The Thelemites have BABALON, the Scarlet Lady, the Whore, etc., #> who refuses nobody. this is the (typically) male-oriented, desire-fantasy of the identity of Babalon, and says nothing about Scarlet Women, whores or Her entirety. Mae Tang : #...if BABALON feels constrained to accept every one who asks her (male #or female) for sex, without a sense that she can choose her own lovers #/ path, then isn't she as much a slave in matters sexual as Mary #inviolate? precisely. #Your Liber Oz / Liber AL injunction about loving whomever, whenever and #however, (but always unto Nuit if that's Liber Al) would seem to me to #apply to women, men and BABALON, as a kind of archetypal mediary between #Nuit and humans. ideally. as Thelema is typically engaged by men, and men are more often seen as pursuer, the woman as pursued (at least within my local society and the general media), the 'take' is insensitively and illogically ascribed only to oneself (presuming the popular heterosexuality). the dedicated Thelemite more often gets into Babalon by doffing whorish duds, and this is not the usual fare for the conservative het-Thelemite. #...BABALON is about being able to say "no" or "yes"; ability, skill, expertise, yes. the benefits of a PROFESSION. #to choose, and to take responsibility for myself, and my own sexuality. but this is not specific to Babalon, who is good at pushing Herself past Her own resistance to sexuality as per Her will for Her own motives (as compared to the motives of the one who desires *Her*). the whore usually engages the profession for the financial remuneration received. this is also the case in American society, where the stereotype goes that women put out in order to be supported (less and less the case as economic currents shift, so the formula tends less often to work for anyone). #I have yet to meet any Thelemites in general / Brethern in the Order I'm in, #who've made the mistake of assuming that, based on your view of BABALON, #we Thelemic / OTO women are naturally incapable of saying "no". ;) the male-oriented, often male-perpetuated archetype of the 'sexual woman' includes this stereotype (either frigid or nympho as the poles). #...being a Scarlet Woman was about more than just sex, .... compare to Therapist, Initiatrix, Yogini, and Priestess-Magician. at Her depths, She is an adept of the current of Love and all this entails and includes. this is seldom restricted to sex, though it may or may not include it. in this sense 'Samadhi' as you use it and 'Love' are not at all different. #...pan-sexuality in which Samadhi / union with in many, many areas of #life is possible. not just possible, but mastered. the adept of Babalon challenges the barriers to connection and the resolution of differentiation through the force of hir will and in consonance with hir own limitations. this may as often require ABSTINENCE as it may require fucking. it is a movement into a state of relaxed readiness which is pervasive and extends much beyond the physical realm (cf 'the quiet strength' of the tiger or 'the lithe adaptability' of the martial arts master). note: Mary Magdelene is along the same lines within Christian mythos. E6/6/6 tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com xiwangmu