Path: kudonet.com!kudo20!tyagi From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333)) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.thelema,alt.magick,talk.religion.misc,alt.thelema,alt.pagan,alt.consciousness.mysticism Subject: Re: Thelemic Monasticism Date: 11 Apr 1997 00:52:03 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 93 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333)) NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo20.kudonet.com Xref: kudonet.com alt.magick.tyagi:8949 alt.satanism:50025 alt.magick:80376 talk.religion.misc:231568 alt.pagan:164392 alt.consciousness.mysticism:7328 49970407 AA1 NULatix! Hail Satan! jake stratton-kent : #Define the 'purpose' of the community, then design the discipline #accordingly. So long as the community serves its purpose the 'focal #glue' is not so much provided by the discipline as maintained by it. excellent. then do 'Thelemic' communities naturally have any shared purposes, even prior to their religious character? #>#BTW someone posted a thread on the 'Satanic' influences on Thelema, #>#pretty accurate and conclusive I thought.... #> #>I'd like to see this if you yet have access. #> #I'll check it out if possible. I imagined you knew of it. perhaps, but not by this description. #>concerned *generics*, rather than variables. I was attempting to #>indicate that I consider the religious elements in particular and #>the forms of discipline (not saying none are required) in general #>to be VARIABLES. #Kinda depends on the function of the Abbey; and as you say, upon the #needs and tastes of the 'monks'. given that the religious are variables, are there any constants in order to qualify for your understanding of 'Thelemic'? #>how about "we don't like rules, we negotiate big things as they come up"? #> #Sure, why not? Be adaptable; usually by the time one formulates a set of #rules to suit conditions, the conditions change. if you accept this as the Rule (esp. for small group), then do you see what might be essentials of the rule (practical details)? do you have a review of the working model which DB offered? #>#The problem being, how useful can indulging your tendencies be #>#in gaining an overview? #> #>given that negotiation and conflict resolution are not at all easy; #>given that each new person who comes into the situation throws a #>curve to the complement; given that the combination sits and then #>catalyzes based on participant experiences (reconfiguring, collapsing, #>renegotiating, exploding, etc.); I think it is very very useful. # #and I don't. Settling (or simply airing) ones philosophical differences #and adapting to each others life-style preferences is not sufficient to #'lift the scales from the eyes'. here I think you have successfully opened my eyes to an essential component I was attempting to capture through the inclusion of 'Thelemic' individuals in Haus Kaos. it begins to point toward shared values of personal growth/development, a level of involvement with each other's process, and a possible set of lifestyle standards. please elaborate on this if you could, indicating some general principles of discipline which you feel should be included (not necessarily their particular forms) in order to encourage scale-lifting. #>#3. An identity - i.e. what makes it Thelemic? #> #>religious -> the structure of interaction #>philosophy -> the quality of interaction #> #>the Haus Kaos has identity based on having a name. it has Thelemic #>quality based on how it operates. I am beginning to see that there are Thelemic qualities of ethics (which is what I originally meant) and discipline (something which JSK mentioned above and which I'm unsure is truly involved in Haus Kaos, especially in any overt and acknowledged way). I am beginning to suspect what quality I am missing, though I have not yet determined how to go about rectifying it. personal discipline is not too difficult for me to come by, and in this sense it may be unnecessary to do more than encourage a combination of disciplined endeavors, letting them naturally coalesce. however, I am still unsure where and when such lines need to be drawn out in order to establish a Thelemic body (in a philosophic, rather than religious sense). comments welcome. E6/6/6 3 3 3 nigris