From thelema93-l-owner@www.hollyfeld.org Fri Nov 19 16:50:19 1999 Return-Path: thelema93-l-owner@www.hollyfeld.org Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (209-67-233-180.bst0.flashcom.net [209.67.233.180]) by prop.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26433 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:50:18 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08770 for thelema93-l-outgoing; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:58:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from Pentacle.net (root@www.pentacle.net [207.153.200.108]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08767 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:58:52 -0500 Received: from billing (root@localhost) by Pentacle.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06384 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:39:02 GMT X-Authenticated-Connect: set.the.controls.for.our.father.the.sun.qblh.com X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 00:39:03(GMT) on November 20, 1999 X-HELO-From: billing X-Mail-From: reverendrob@avatarsearch.com X-Sender-IP-Address: 204.71.49.6 Message-Id: <4.1.19991119172541.00a02d10@realm-of-shade.com> X-Sender: reverendrob@avatarsearch.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:48:28 -0700 To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org From: the Reverend Rob Subject: Social contracts and Thelema In-Reply-To: <000601bf3284$d50e0180$5fadf3c2@d5b6n0> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Status: RO Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. At 12:53 PM 11/19/99 +0100, J.M. Kleemann wrote: Davy Jones wrote: >> These documents are not for the most part some deep mystery. They, >>along with the initiations and their oaths, constitute the Social Contract >>that members of O.T.O. make with each other and the Order. > >That's a fine remark; I would like to hear more about what you define as >Social Contract (a illuministic-derived expression, if I don't fool myself), >I think it's a very interesting Topic. There are three "schools of thought" on the idea of the social contract, each of which throws an interesting twist on what exactly constitutes a social contract between a member and a fraternal organization such as the O.T.O. The first can be found in Plato; the social contract in this sense is between the individual and society, in which society/groups are formed to fulfil human needs. Since individual people are suited to a particular task or skill, they come together to meet each other's needs. The interaction of people seeking to fulfil each other's needs creates society, and the exchange of services that fulfil the needs of members constitues the social contract in this sense. In a member/organization context, the member provides dues, support, free or reduced fee labor, et cetera, in the hopes that the organization will supply things which the individual needs, such as companionship, security (i.e. the original 101's child-care provisions or loan on dues), and belonging. Hobbes also provides insight into the social contract in _Leviathan_. Hobbes postulates that the human condition is a state of constant war (a fascinating idea in light of the martial aspects of Thelema as expressed in AL), and that those of a rational bent would want to establish some sort of rules to create peace. In doing this, ethical and moral standards are created. In such a system, Hobbes speculates that individuals are better off with some sort of ethical and moral guidelines, because otherwise the individual has no protections against the selfishness of others. Ironically, Hobbes postulates that this same selfishness will entice rational individuals to establish rules to protect their own interests and property, even if it does restrict their own ability to selfishlessly take from others. Hobbes' social contract is ultimately of self-interest. In regards to a member/organizational standpoint, Hobbes' contract establishes a system by which the order would protect the interests of the individual first and foremost, providing them security which they could not establish or maintain alone. Thus, the individual would be willing to give up freedoms, pay dues, et al, to ensure that their interests are protected. In regards to 101 and the Sabazius revisions, this in essence makes me wonder what an individual perceiving a Hobbes-influenced social contract has to gain now that many of the protections and benefits have been removed. In contrast, Rousseau's belief that mankind is naturally in a state of freedom that fosters creativity establishes a social contract system where the individual creates a society or organization where the guiding rule is providing what is best for all individuals concerned. The society in this sense will work to provide basic levels of freedom and support for all members, and ensure that the basic rights of each individual to live in freedom are established. In the context of the individual/organizational relationship, the individual freely gives in an attempt to better society, and in doing so, making things better for themselves. The organization ensures that basic rights are upheld and that all individuals are treated in an equitable fashion. Ironically, it appears that the constitutional documents of the O.T.O. in particular are made up of a combination of both types of social contracts, where benefits are provided to members that match the Hobbes-requirement of selfish benefit as well as Rousseau's protection of freedom. Unfortunately, the recent changes to 101 and other documents as practiced by the organization strip out the Hobbes-influenced social contract, which can and will be extremely distressing to individuals to whom these things are important. In looking at Crowley's vision for the O.T.O. as described in these documents, it is apparent that there is an intentional mixing of the Rousseau and Hobbes social contract concept; it is designed to appeal to a wide range of individuals, and I must wonder whether this universal nature will be retained now that the contract has been at least in part broken. Love is the Law, Love under Will. -- the Reverend Rob ICQ: 1280871 Yahoo: theReverendRob http://www.realm-of-shade.com .`. .`. .`. .`. http://www.qblh.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- "I prefer not to kill people, but I'd like to destroy as much property as possible." - Grace Slick, from the Airplane FBI file ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.realm-of-shade.com/music : feedback and echo MP3s ____________...oooOOO---thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to thelema93-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To unsubscribe from the digest send to thelema93-l-digest-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/thelema93-l.phtml