From bouncefilter+zazas-l=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@hollyfeld.org Thu Nov 12 12:00:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (root@ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA20571 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:30 -0800 Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id MAA26217 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:29 -0800 Received: from mail-out-4.tiac.net (mail-out-4.tiac.net [199.0.65.16]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09671 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:00:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bouncefilter+zazas-l=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@hollyfeld.org) Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (www.hollyfeld.org [204.130.199.143]) by mail-out-4.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA24451 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:00:25 GMT (envelope-from bouncefilter+zazas-l=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@hollyfeld.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA04864 for tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:07:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to bouncefilter+zazas-l=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA04860 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:07:22 -0500 Received: from shell.accesscom.com (tyagi@shell.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA26106; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:59:16 -0800 Received: (from tyagi@localhost) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id LAA20466; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:59:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199811121959.LAA20466@shell.accesscom.com> Subject: (Z) Satanism and Thelema (was Satan! Where the hell...) (fwd) To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org (ZAZAS-L Satanist Elist) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:59:16 -0800 (PST) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Orientation: Arkaotika, Ville of the Forest, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga Organization: http://www.abyss.com/tokus X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-zazas-l@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: zazas-l@hollyfeld.org Status: RO 49981112 IIIom Hail Satan! in Thelema93-L, Jesse Krenzelok wrote: #># If that is true, than why wouldn't Satan work for the almighty, #># rather than his earthly vessel? nigris: # >some do not distinguish between these. Jesse Krenzelok : # ...If God was Jesus (and not his philsophical father) and he # died upon the cross as a God, then why in the name of hell do # I give a shit? Jesus the Christ is a fictional character, God doubly so. the ascription of human qualities to the divine are arrogant and self-fulfilling. these are not playtime stories meant to serve as a reason for you to submit to your betters (as the Herd), but instead stupendous mysteries which have the capacity to change your life forever in their formulaic perfection. the story of the Christ is best seen as a symbol or example, rather than a history (esp. for Thelemites). # If God is that weak, that Crucifixion pained him, he is # not someone to be followed... weakness is a virtue, only the arrogant warrior sees it not. the Crucifixion is the plight of every human being, set hung between birth and death, pleasure and pain, upon the cross of dualism, reconciling the terrible ecstasies of the present. if we try to step down from that Cross, then we merely abandon ourselves. if we merely follow the symbol of our resurrection, then we forget that we are also divine. # >the Garden was a womb, not a permanent residence. the Garden God # >ejected the Primordial Couple in order to facilitate maturation. # # I like that-- I'll be sure to think about that... but I feel you are # leaving the Christian Arena with that one... Gnostic Christian, the Snake of the Garden was the Revealer of Wisdom and assistant to the Gardener, unbeknownst to the Garden's inhabitants and to many fundamentalists thereafter. # >the Christ is the perfect martyrdom formula for the New Aeon, # >translated into selfish ends. # # This New Aeon, or the Aeon of Osiris? I don't feel that # Crucifixion is necessary connected to Thelema... but if # you care to explain, I will certainly enjoy reading it... the Aeon of the Adversary, which succeeded the Egyptian periods so lauded by Egyptophiles like Crowley and the New Age of Aquarius so beloved of some Astrologers, includes all these formulae in the achievement of liberating the individual. the Christ and His Crucifixion is just one of many such formulae, provided emphasis during certain periods for the purposes of human growth and political manipulation. Thelema is entirely about the emancipation of the individual, and the opposition to the convention (sometimes unto death in a beautiful symbol of defiant and peaceful resistance) is both moral for the individual to undertake (esp. when this convention is disturbing to the balance of emphasis upon the individual or the group of which she is part) and liberating in its consequence (at least for those for whom it serves as a witness to the Christian epitome). # >no, evil is an illusion perpetuated by the vomiting up and swallowing # >of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. gagging # >on this poison, we ascribe faults and blame, castigate and condem, # >and generally faulter and wound. transmuting it in our throats, we # >become the Destroyer of the Cosmos. # # ...I was playing "Christian philosopher" I believe you are taking the # issue to a different arena altogether... the limited arenas of fundamentalists contain their own reward. only the syncretic and inclusive Christianity which has at its heart the principle of Agape is destined to survive in the New Aeon, the rest will be trampled and forgotten. #> (the better examples of Satanism, a philosophic movement in its #> relative infancy inspired in part by the vulgar Thelemic cultus #> (Crowley, et al)). # Please clarify! Are you stating that Satanism is a better movement # in some way than the other Thelemic orders Satanism as an anti-religious religious movement was provided its impetus by the Thelemic cultus. it is Thelemic in its principles yet does not deign to arrogantly adopt a self-description that denotes a liberative character. instead it takes on the guise of the Adversary and demonstrates it perfection without gloating. # (If so, you'd better rethink "Do what thou wilt"), DWTW has every possible meaning, if only the reader be illuminated. # or are you just saying that the Satanic movement was # inspired by raw Thelema? (in that case, I agree-- in some cases) yes, but moreso the principles which this cultus elaborated and popularized. Crowley was a prophet, not the originator of the Law, which precedes him by aeons. blessed beast! ___________________________________________________________________________ nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com - Emergency Contraception:18005849911 TOKUS: http://www.abyss.com/tokus; CoE: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/ cc replies to me if this was read in Usenet. replies may be posted. ____________...oooOOO---zazas-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to zazas-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To subscribe send "subscribe" to zazas-l-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven