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From: Taliesin of Earthstar <shukenza@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.witchcraft,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.wicca
Subject: Re: Symbolism of Wiccan Scourging (was Serious On Topic...)
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:41:28 GMT
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On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 03:59:58 GMT, nagasiva@luckymojo.com (lorax666)
wrote:

>50000228 IVom
>
>Taliesin of Earthstar <shukenza@earthlink.net>:
>>...A lot of "eclectic" covens and groups have
>>dispensed with the scourge entirely, as the symbolism (the entire
>>"descent of the Goddess" myth-motif, et al) is sometimes seen as
>>"inappropriate" in this overly PC day and age.
>
>strong language. ok, I'm game. what is the value of seeing women
>flayed as part of (apparently Inanna-based) ritual? 

Change that to "putatively Innana-based," and I'll go along with it
<g>.

As far as "value," I'm assuming there is some, because some people
have found a way to become aware of "that which they seek" within
themselves. It's just not a method I can use.

Problems with the myth: lack of historicity to the side, it has a
surface-resemblance to the "She wanted it anyway" defense that some
violent people have used to justify rape. Adittionally, I personally
have a lot of problems with the "great leader" aspects of the motif.

>is there a
>comparable male-flogging myth used amongst "serious" covens who
>aren't 'overly PC'? 

None that I'm aware of. However, scourging is used (always
male-to-female, or female-to-male, never same-gender) in the
"original" Gardnerian and Alexandrian BoS's for:
1: All three "degrees" of initiation;
2: A method of "raising power" for external magic;
3: A method of "gaining the sight" (one form of "internal magic");
And possibly other purposes. Though the myth is "male-to-female," the
practice can go in either direction.

>does it make a difference that Gardner was
>probably a sexual pervert who needed to be whipped in a semblance
>of his knee-high Governess Cammie days in order to get excited?

Nagasiva, you're being naughty. <g>

>is this an indication of who would most flourish in Gardnerianism
>(esp. those lines which still continue this type of 'punishment')?

Not for the suggested reasons, I would presume. But -- not being a BTW
initiate -- that is a presumption, not first-hand knowledge.


Taliesin of Earthstar
shukenza <at> earthlink <dot> net

I've been running low on supplies. Spam me and I use YOU as a substitute for "Eye of newt...."