From sentto-1949225-8264-991011058-nagasiva=luckymojo.com@returns.onelist.com Sun May 27 17:51:00 2001 Return-Path: sentto-1949225-8264-991011058-nagasiva=luckymojo.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from f19.egroups.com (f19.egroups.com [64.211.240.234]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id f4S0p0K01625 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 17:51:00 -0700 X-envelope-info: X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1949225-8264-991011058-nagasiva=luckymojo.com@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2001 00:50:58 -0000 X-Sender: heidrick@well.com X-Apparently-To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 28 May 2001 00:50:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 22795 invoked from network); 28 May 2001 00:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 May 2001 00:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.well.com) (208.178.101.27) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 May 2001 00:50:56 -0000 Received: from default (11-132.018.popsite.net [216.126.150.132]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id RAA05293 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 17:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20010527154933.007a1780@mail.well.com> X-Sender: heidrick@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9erod9+h6e9@eGroups.com> From: Bill Heidrick MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com; contact thelema93-l-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:49:33 -0700 Reply-To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [t93] Gerald Gardner and Crowley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sub.sonic.net id f4S0p0K01625 Status: RO 93, "Neo" wrote: >In the book, The Triumph of the Moon : A History of Modern Pagan >Witchcraft by Ronald Hutton, the author wrote that Gerald Gardner was >OHO of OTO in Europe. Is that true? No, and it's impossible by the nature of the office. There's only one OHO. Gardner did tell Frieda Harris that he, Gardner, was probably head of OTO in Europe. That would be regional, a Xth degree at most, not OHO. It's understandable that Hutton might have confused the titles. Germer apparently didn't see it Gardner's way, and so the issue was dropped. Gardner was in the USA at the time and continued friendly with Germer. >"The latterīs friend Frieda Harris the wrote to Karl Germer, leader >of OTO in America, that it was supposed in England that Gradner would >now be the head of the order in Europa. Germer received a letter from >Gardner in January 1948, sayng that he was sailing for England from >NY on 19 march and could meet Germer there before he departed. In >this letter to Symonds, Gardner claimed that the meeting had taken >place, and Germer had indeed recognized him as European leader of the >OTO." Right, as to the documents. If the meeting took place, there's no record known to me about such a recognition. Germer did take actions in Europe, in regard to OTO, but those actions didn't mention Gardner. Noel Fitzgerald, F.Mellenger and of course Metzger were asked to do various things. Grant had Germers attention to the mid 1950's. Nothing special through Gardner as far as I know. >" He (Crowley) died while Gardner was in America, and many people >there regarded Gerald himself as the obvious new leader for the order >(OTO); but he did not want the job".... I don't know of OTO membership general knowledge of Gardner's presence in the USA at the time. Not mentioned in correspondence or minutes of Agape Lodge members. I think that part would have to be considered exaggerated. As to Gardner's not wanting the job, that makes sense to me. Gardner was fairly intelligent. :-) 93 93/93 Bill To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: thelema93-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/