Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.traditional.witchcraft,alt.witchcraft Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.traditional.witchcraft,alt.witchcraft,alt.religion.pagan Subject: Wiccan Authority and Order References: <5GU3a.118966$Gm2.2995172@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com> From: lorax666 Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 121 Message-ID: <%qW3a.66642$Ik.2832281@typhoon.sonic.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:56:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1045443387 208.201.242.18 (Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:56:27 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:56:27 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:13704 alt.magick.tyagi:37003 alt.pagan:337609 alt.religion.wicca:654715 alt.traditional.witchcraft:146103 alt.witchcraft:59266 50030217 VII First Spring Lunatix re "McWicca" -- Religion, Magic, and Authority-Structures "Cyric- The God of Free Pagan Usenet" AKA "Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft" (tm) : > ...I wrote .... a term so poignant and relevant to neo Paganism that > is has become part of the lexicon. ...circulated worldwide, stolen writing it and spreading it in the public seems conducive to it becoming utilized, whoever may have originated the term or may wish to take credit for it. more important is its import and the ramifications of its usage. import : without your contextual reference, it implies some commodification through association with the popular convenience-food chain "McDonalds"; note that Peter Koenig has used the term "McOTO" to describe the Order of the Temple of the East for quite some time (preceding you?) and other comparable uses in criticism probably precede your posting of the term 'McWicca'. within your contextual reference it refers to a traditional dissonance between methods and axioms of knowledge with respect to the lineage or art studied. (I.e. it simultaneously implies either biased and contentious motives on your part or your ignorance as regards how Wicca a a whole maintains its integrity. ramifications: as a criticism of a fellow Wiccan, it avails most not of benefit from its use, outside confined expositions of the subject proper (i.e. in larger bodies of work that are attempting to discern betwixt trads or identify certain problematic social strains. mostly it affords greater tools for put-down, which most Wiccans would not agree abides the Wiccan Rede (and ought to be abandoned as such). > ...published by ...authors .... neato. > ...started a huge battle .... influential. > ...has come to defines a whole religion. mistakenly applied. the religion incorporates several different trajectories of authority inclusive of the solitary and less matriculatory (e.g. initiatic). > The story of "Welcome to McWicca" .... huge snip: > [example] got in over his head and ended up desperately trying > to defend himself. ...did ask for help and some outstanding > people tried to help him. When he didn't hear what he wanted, > he made up his own way and ended up biting the hands that > tried to feed him. He pretty much got what he deserved. the Goddess does not desire Her children be punished for ignorance. willful ignorance does appear to be self-destructive. > Between this and the idea that one could go from "What is a BoS?" > to covened First Degree Buckland Initiate, sounds suspicious, doesn't it, for a short duration? it wouldn't be entirely outside the bounds of historical activities of magical organizations to exaggerate the connection to and authority received from any particular mystical or magical lineage. look at how Gardner, Crowley, and a good number of other occultists sought the connection. > experienced Magus, let the experienced Magus issue forth hir Word and be done. > and persecuted Witch.... come now, you are surely aware of the romantic notions of Charter Myths, fantasy-constructs facilitating authoritative connections with other dimensions in learning and worship. persecution is one of the keywords associated with witchcraft in the mind of a good number of the Western Esoteric Tradition. it is the first consistent story I heard about from Wiccans, which informed their mythos and ethos. regardless of the issue of the individual whom you were criticizing, and the hubris demonstrated in the contention / misunderstandin of the office of Magus, why would the trajectory of persecution be at all an indicator of corruption as regards Wicca? it seems pandemic in the entire expanse of the Great Martyrdom Cult (incorporating Christianity and some good portino of Neopaganism). > ...I just managed to define them in one small word. describe. insufficiently concise to define, and insufficiently personal to truly elucidate an understanding of the authority structures contained within the greater Wiccan community. blessed beast! lorax666 ----------- ps one might inquire into the relation betwixt the use of a corrupted name of an Irish bard-mage (Taliesin) and criticism using an Irish-Scottish prefix for "son of" (Son of Wicca); one might also consider why it is valuable to perpetuate the 'Mc/Mac' demonizing as equatable to commodity, business success, and the typical degradation associated with these features; but these are both tangents to the present discussion. };>