Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.ethics,alt.pagan.magick,alt.religion.wicca,alt.witchcraft Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.ethics,alt.religion.wicca Subject: Wiccan Ethics and Harm References: <3mjevv0c1hthmi8ifk0veublatj0iskbgq@4ax.com> <7hugvv8415pio32e8odsn8u35kqf1fhkgn@4ax.com> <28nKb.54251$E17.53593@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> From: lorax666 Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 107 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:34:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1074814443 208.201.242.18 (Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:34:03 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:34:03 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:45651 alt.magick:365292 alt.magick.ethics:8348 alt.pagan.magick:40346 alt.religion.wicca:805366 alt.witchcraft:68721 50040122 vii om -- Happy Triumph Day! #> "Harming none, for my highest good and the highest good of everyone #> concerned." there's *lots* of variation on this kind of protective magical codicil. Diane Weinstein's "Positive Magic" covers some good ones. in hoodoo the Christian rootworkers might say "May if it be the will of The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen". Wiccans could use the same form (as the above seems to imply): May my partner manifest my desires and agree with me that a new house, baby, etc., will be perfect for us, if it be the will of the Lord and the Lady, So Mote it Be! "Figinnn" : # How far do you wish to take the concept of "harm"? there's rational limitation to the concept and its application. primarily, in the covens within which I was instructed, the idea of 'harm' was part of an overall awareness-program to minimize *unnecessary or avoidable* harm. # Say you cast a spell to get a job. It works. You know it works. ok, let's proceed with that. # How about the other poor slob that also applied but didn't # get the job? competition for such things includes winners and losers. # Not to be totally cynical, but there's no way you can walk out # of your house without harming *someone* or *something* in *some* # way. We don't live in a bubble. We live in the greater # macrocosm of our existence. the Wiccan Rede was never meant to be applied to the extent of Jainism, from what I can see. primarily it includes mundane and magical actions which are avoidable that cause observable harm. one might wish to enforce Wiccan ethics by surrounding oneself with a 'get mini-beings out of my way whenever possible' charm or talisman, and then watch for them. usually Wiccans apply it within such domains as nutrition (what shall we eat?) and, of course, sociopolitics. # We can do our best not to mess with other people's/being's # lives or balance ... who gets counted as a "people" or "person" matters here. # but it is my belief that "harming none" is (while a valiant # effort) impossible. sustained to desired results, it can prove a valuable GUIDELINE. note: the term 'rede' *means* guideline. most Wiccans with whom I've studied thought that adhering to the Rede as a Rule was a foolish and unnecessary option, and that those who were willing to deal with the consequences (whatever they may be) of coercion (e.g. black magic or even grey like unconsulted healing) were in no way condemned by them as 'breaking the Rule of Wicca'. # My own opinion is to always consider the potential impacts of # our actions on others more so than be so scared of cosmic karma # that we never try anything. precisely. sometimes any karma we think will be incurred may be quite worth the effort. if we don't believe in karma, or some overarching entity dealing out cosmic Justice, then it will not really be an issue. is the Rede backed up by the cosmos? 3 times? 10? # Can we unintentionally so overgeneralize and sanitize # our workings that they lose all effectiveness? hand-wringing or self-doubt can render the expression of will in magical pursuits completely effectless, yes. some theurges get over this by adding addendums to their spells which make it the gods' responsibility for 'allowing it to happen'. # If it's all about will and intent, then why the need for # a "safety clause?" ignorance. unintentional repercussions of intended acts. # Wouldn't the powers that be (whoever they are) know what # you're trying to do? are there any powers that be? or are we operating within a cosmos in which we are part of those powers? is it a great hierarchy? or is it an anarchistic universe in which the Goddess asks us to have compassion for the less powerful? # Just a different point of view. I enjoy it, Figinn, thanks. y r B o l b n e e w s a o s s d e t e d ! .com@nagasiva lorax666