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From: ainsuph@aol.com (AINSUPH)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: 14 May 2001 20:32:45 GMT
References: <dR9A6.43579$wx.11079331@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Crowley's 5=6 claims unproven!
Message-ID: <20010514163245.23842.00002018@ng-bj1.aol.com>
Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:243965

<< "Bob Z" <morning@star.gd> wrote in message news:3AD0D4EA.CAC75D43@star.gd...
> Nuit wrote:
> >>>http://golden-dawn.com
> >> The point here is actually that no documents proving that Aleister
> Crowley
> >> ever was initiated into the inner order of the Hermetic Order of the
> >Golden
> >> Dawn have ever turned up. Given Crowley's claims regarding the
> A.'.A.'.,
> >this
> >> is not a moot point at all. Indeed, much depends on it.
beast: There are legal
> >records recording the events of Crowley's appearance in London as
> Mathers
> >agent, including the seizing of the vault. Do you really think Mathers
> would
> >have sent him without advancing this Portal member to 5=6 first?
>
> There is no record on the Ahathoor Temple minutes showing that Crolwey
> was ever advanced to either the Portal or 5=6 there, despite what
> Crowley claims. Nor have any Thelemic archives ever produced a copy of
> Crowley's initiation certificates.
> >
> >Well, even if you want to be quasi-legal and apostalic about it in that
>
> >sense, I still have to disagree with you. George Cecil Jones was a 5=6
> at
> >the time of the revolt, and a 7=4 in the Alpha et Omega in 1906. His
> >authority bridges the difference, allows for the elevation of Crowley
> (he is
> >known to have obligated AC to the 5=6 in July, 1906, though this is
> always
> >reported as a reenactment). A 7=4 would have had this authority.

Had Perdurabo already received the 5=6 from Mathers, Jones would undoubtedly
not have needed to confer the degree.  Thus, a 5=6 conferral on Crowley in 1906
by Jones would further suggest that Mathers never gave Crowley the 5=6, because
Jones needed to confer it.  

Instead, Westcott dispatched Reuss to give Crowley Masonic titles and
authorities, including the Xth degree of O.T.O.  Aof of course, John Yarker,
the dean of all exotic high grade masonic rites in england, had already given
Crowley all he had, including high grades of egyptian freemasonry.

If Jones made no use of a physical Vault, and simply obligated Crowley, then
this would not be considered valid by the florida faction.  Of course, their
view on this point isn't authentic anyway, and can be discounted.  Instead,
Chris Hyatt was Regardie's designated and authorized successor.   Thus, groups
chartered by the latter can be considered to have a valid Regardie imprimatur. 


>
>
> OK. Now you have two shots to produce Temple records or initiation
> certificates. Such things were common. You seem long on wind but short
> on documentation.
>
>
> >
> >This is too embedded in history to question it in the absence of some
> >documentary evidence that it didn't occur.
>
>
> In other words, if you tell a lie long enough people will eventually
> believe it.
>

 >>