To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,alt.magick,alt.thelema,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Thelema and Golden Dawn 
From: 333 <yronwode.com@nagasiva>
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:22:01 GMT

50030502 VII om peace 

do what you please

"Christopher" <cmwitecki@rogers.com>:
# How many people are a member of both the Golden Dawn and the OTO? 

different characters of orgs, and at least from the OTO side there
ought be little restriction. usual GDs are matricular, at least the
caliphate OTO ((c)OTO) is not officially so, being a membership org 
for occultists and a reservoir for the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica.

# I know there is some controversy about this, and some people believe 
# that the currents are so different that a person cannot integrate 
# them into their spiritual development. 

this belief appeals largely to the cliquish. as with many occult
and esoteric organizations, sometimes their characters are more 
a part of the member's perception than an actuality. I've known
people with multiple, cross-cultural memberships -- often who
kept their involvements in the more magical to themselves.

# Others however feel that all paths lead up the mountain 

GD is portrayed as a path and its character as a quasi-masonic
echo surpasses in inclusivity that which the (c)OTO offers
(because everything after IVth Prince of Jerusalem is by
invitation only and arguably dependent upon politics).

thus there is no "mountain" in the (c)OTO, whose upper echelon
is reserved, excepting in a minor and administrative sense, for 
the few who carry out the details of the promulgation of the Law.
contrastingly, the A.'.A.'. is the complement which purports to
*integrate* the GD as well as the Rose Croix into its structure,
therefore directly competing with its authority and purpose, and
containing the "mountain" which its members may each ascend.
 
# and too much fuss and emphasis is placed on such matters. 

I disagree. not enough emphasis is placed on the incompatibility
of certain orgs and the complementary nature of others. one may,
for example, fruitfully argue that dedication within conventional
matricular orgs to extension and faithful participation at low
levels in the (c)OTO is a perfect combination.

# I am more the latter believing that a person can have more than 
# one current of attainment in their personal work.

too much emphasis and fuss is placed on "currents" as suitable
yet outdated replacements for the follies of religion.

# Have people found that they are able to integrate the two 
# successfully in their spiritual lives?

there is no distraction or conflict between my involvement with
the (c)OTO and what I understand as my activities in association
with the Great White Brotherhood (whom I identify as the true
AA, the Secret Chiefs, the Celestial Masters, the Order of kaos,
etc., etc.).

# What about order politics? Are either the Golden Dawn or the 
# OTO opposed to membership in both?

I can't answer for the Golden Dawns. my understanding is that
the (c)OTO is only opposed to its members becoming initiates
of other organizations which purport to BE the OTO, which it
deals with through expulsion after bad report/proper warning.

invoke me under my stars

333
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