From sentto-1949225-15361-1090600351-nagasiva=luckymojo.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 10:41:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from b.mx.sonic.net (eth0.b.mx.sonic.net [209.204.159.4]) by a.lds.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6NHfUp1000863 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:41:30 -0700 Received: from awn04.www-net.com (awn04.www-net.com [206.246.203.194]) by b.mx.sonic.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6NHfUuB007296 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:41:30 -0700 Received: (qmail 74441 invoked by uid 89); 23 Jul 2004 17:41:24 -0000 Delivered-To: nagasiva@luckymojo.com Received: (qmail 74407 invoked by uid 89); 23 Jul 2004 17:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.101) by awn04.www-net.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 17:41:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1949225-15361-1090600351-nagasiva=luckymojo.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 16:32:32 -0000 X-Sender: dgsaa@winfirst.com X-Apparently-To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69133 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 16:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2004 16:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.mc.surewest.net) (66.60.130.51) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 16:32:29 -0000 Received: (s3-25903); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:31:28 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.123.236) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:31:28 -0700 To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.123.236 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.60.130.51 From: David Shoemaker X-Yahoo-Profile: dshoemaker93 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com; contact thelema93-l-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:31:51 -0700 Subject: [t93] A.'.A.'., C.O.T. issues Reply-To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=FROM_EGROUPS,GAPPY_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, TO_BE_REMOVED_REPLY,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 4515 Lines: 96 Dear friends, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. There has been a great deal of discussion about the A.'.A.'. and College/Temple of Thelema on this list of late. Unfortunately, much misinformation has been floating around, and I'd like to try to address a few points. It is not my intention to argue points of opinion or perspective. For example, we've all seen 1,000 flame wars on the "real A.'.A.'.", and so on. When I say "The A.'.A.'." I am speaking of the curriculum established by Crowley and Jones, transmitted through teacher-student relationships down to the present time. If this is not what you believe the A.'.A.'. to be, that's fine--I'm using this term as a means of discussion, not asserting its absolute truth in any sense. I just want to present a few basic facts about these organizations, as I have come to know them, to correct some oft-repeated errors. I am responding specifically to a few things in a recent post by "Bythor". Fallacy #1: The C.O.T. and Jane Wolfe A.'.A.'. lineage "charge for initiation". Within this lineage of A.'.A.'. , money is not and has never been charged for initiation. The lineage honors the traditional Student curriculum established by A.C. as one means of approach. It also honors completion of Course One of the College of Thelema as an alternate way of fulfilling the Student requirement. I think this is where some confusion has arisen regarding money. The College assesses a single modest fee for each Course (each course lasts for 1-2 years), just as any College would, to cover its own expenses (mostly printing and related supplies). The Temple of Thelema also charges very modest fees, to cover its expenses (again, mostly printing, rental space, etc.) just as any working Order tends to do. One does not join the A.'.A.'. by joining the T.O.T. or C.O.T., but this *can* be an effective way of preparing for one's admission as a Probationer, as an alternative to the traditional Student curriculum. This alternate method of approach to Probationer is the only such deviation from A.C.'s curriculum in any Grade. Fallacy #2: The Temple of Thelema is a "rip off" of the O.T.O. As a member of both organizations, I find this myth to be a bit humorous. These two Orders are completely different in ritual style, aims, administration, and every other dimension of organization I can think of. The underlying philosophy of Thelema is the primary area of overlap. The T.O.T. is based on the basic pattern of the Golden Dawn degrees, with Thelemic philosophy, modern psychology, and a century of input from other Western mystery schools interwoven into its curriculum. It is absolutely *not* the case, as "Bythor" asserts, that the T.O.T./C.O.T. practices "OTO ritual". Again, anyone familiar with both Orders would never confuse them. There were a number of personal attacks in Bythor's post. Since these relate mostly to the personalities, motivations and behaviors of others, including living persons, I'm not going to go into it here. I *would* like to say, for the record, that my participation in O.T.O., C.O.T., T.'.O.'.T.'. and A.'.A.'. has been a beautiful and fulfilling experience. I have met many people through this work who have gone on to be my dearest friends and colleagues. All of these groups have a great deal to offer, in my opinion, for those who are seeking what they teach, and find a spiritual home with them. It is wise to approach *any* Order with caution and care, and I appreciate the importance of critical thinking and discussion, as has occurred on this list lately. I invite further discussion on these matters if there is interest, or if I have been unclear in my responses to the above issues. Love is the law, love under will. David Shoemaker Provost, College of Thelema Grand Imperator, Temple of Thelema ------------------------ Yahoo! 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