Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.thelema,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: OTO Oaths References: <3DFCC7E0.68A80A28@pacbell.net> From: 333 Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 91 Message-ID: <97BM9.55936$Ik.1712921@typhoon.sonic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:09:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1040375365 208.201.242.18 (Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:09:25 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:09:25 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:329776 alt.magick.tyagi:35400 talk.religion.misc:391245 50021220 VII happy solstice! unsure of this one: >>> Does one have to take an Oath to join the OTO not officially. you can be an Associate Member for a small fee and some kind of address. send email to BHeidrick, who occasionally posts here. >>> and if so how is it worded? there are supposed to be oaths for all the initiation rituals. try Francis King's Secret Rites of the OTO or Naylor's book (both probably OP and going for pretty pennies these days) if you want some examples. or turn to former members (there are more and more every day), who may decide it is important to them to get the word out. the oaths are crucial barometers of any order, as they indicate the liberative or constrained character of the predominant membership. the range of potential interpretation and how much it may bind up your will in pursuit of activities controlled by and regulated by the OTO says something about its Thelemic quality or lack thereof. see also "Duty", which the order- mongers will immediately begin pointing you toward. if you're not getting something, don't give up your power. know what you're getting into. demand full information or withold your allegiance. >*Huh? Joseph quotes Crowley: ># It is only when the Postulant has taken irrevocable ># Oaths and been received formally, that he discover ># what Fraternity he has joined. If he have taken ># false symbols for [true], and finds himself magically ># pledged to a gang of rascals, so much the worse for him!" ># ># Liber ABA chapter XII page 209, footnote. many break with what they perceive to be rascals after learning of their character and rationalizing their disloyalty as some kind of justification for betraying their own word. I don't recommend this. instead, find out whatever you need before you join any organization. ask lots of questions, find out who is likely to provide the best answers, who enforces whatever is outlined, and how. as LaVey advises, ask "Who gains?" and follow the lines of power. "Ka" : >*So what does that mean? it means that the OTO may be a gang of rascals. association with popular (or notorious) writers won't redeem them. how to discern this and what you will wish to do about it is totally up to you. >The only Oath i found online is supposedly for a III of OTO. in OTO that's the 4th degree (the first being Minerval, the second being First Degree, third Second, fourth Third, and beyond it gets more complicated). > Is this anywhere near correct or complete? What is the > Oath for Minerva ? that's MinervaL, and you can look it up on some pirate web site if they have eluded the long arm of the (c)OTO. :> will it be accurate? the best way to find out if you really want to know is to cultivate friends in high places within the OTO who can't keep their disciplines but were provided with their station on account of personal backscratching. many of these have rolled over out of membership with the change to the Beta Regime. note the international focus now. keep in mind that those who are willing to betray their oaths may be unreliable sources of information. corroborate what you learn with other who try to ferrett this info out into the open, like Brother Peter Koenig of the anti-McOTO Squad (extensive website! watch the translations!). >> (8th degree 3rd order S * S * ) > > *Huh? could be 'Silver Star', in which case don't bother paying it much attention (since it is a secret and invisible order which doesn't admit of these orderly schemes -- it just pretends to so as to quell the whining of mages). 333