Here is the whole sequence of events that transpired from Peggy telling me to "get proof" that Andre Schlesinger and Lestat Ventrue were being AWFUL to their own COS members in chat and otherwise. What was uncovered was a lot more.
All the information that Tani Jantsang gathered about Ventrue, Schlesinger, and others was asked for BY the COS ADMIN and GIVEN TO the COS Admin. They asked for it. Tani had COS MEMBER HELP in getting it, and Tani gave it to the COS Administration.
From: hpoelzig <email@example.com> To: "Tani Jantsang" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:04:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Here it is Message-ID: <200005311304.JAA07259@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Received: from mx2.jersey.juno.com (mx2.jersey.juno.com [184.108.40.206]) by m5.jersey.juno.com with SMTP id AAA6VLDQVAW6CWG2 for <email@example.com> (sender <firstname.lastname@example.org>); Wed, 31 May 2000 09:04:19 -0400 (EST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [220.127.116.11]) by mx2.jersey.juno.com with SMTP id AAA6VLDQVATUS7KS for <email@example.com> (sender <firstname.lastname@example.org>); Wed, 31 May 2000 09:04:19 -0400 (EST) Received: from [18.104.22.168] (nyc-ny67-48.ix.netcom.com [22.214.171.124]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07259 for <email@example.com>; Wed, 31 May 2000 09:04:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" x-sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Return-Path: <email@example.com>
Forwarding this to Blanche.
>Here it is in sequential order with the "stuff I sent you, logs, emails"
>left out since you already have them.
>This is much more coherant and in order than the groping "who is its" you
>Please read it carefully and get back to me on it. I want to send this
>to Blanche. Or if you do, let me know. It is NAUSEATING, OK? The mealy
>mouthed cowardice, the fucking pretenses, all of it: NAUSEAGING.
>I do believe Andre Schlesinger SHOULD SEE this.
>He should also know that I don't know him; I have no idea what MIB is
>except for the popular conception of it (ufo's etc) and I have NOTHING
>against him. I don't know him. I'm just a very good spy - had a lot of
>experience doing that (REALLY! - and yes, the FBI knows it since they
>CAUGHT ME, or at least caught me doing ONE thing - not the other - plus I
>did THEM a favor anyway - big one. It was also returned.).
Here is the sequence of events.
1. Clique of fascist fetishists are around. People within the COS know it and many find them suffocating and very regulatory and harrassing. Also, the paranount enemies of the COS are now saying this too and claimng these fascists want to take over (and claiming Peter Gilmore is their leader! or claiming Peggy Nadrama ignores it or endorces it or defends it!) Now: in reality are they fascists? No: they have NO CONCEPT of what fascism is - it exists in many S. American countries, it NEVER existed in Germany during Hitler's time AT ALL, NEVER. These people into this have NO political awareness nor do they even know what National Socialism is - or that it's the OPPOSITE of fascism. What are these people? They are people into "Ilse She Beast of the SS" one of the most twisted, sickening movies ever made; they are into HEILING Satan and HEILING each other and calling each other Herr This and Frau that. They are into the fetish mysticque of Jewish-Nazism (ala Hollywood: Nazis are eeeeevil) or they are into pretentions where they try to behave like what they IMAGINE aristocrats behave like. Many people who despite this inner circle find Hitler (fascist or not) to be a royal yawn, his life a royal yawn and the whole rest of the history told 100 times over a royal yawn. I have heard of this for 3 years off line. I heard about it when I got online after I got finished with finishing the Panthers.
2. Many people are also treated like pure shit by Andre Schlesinger. Cos members, other Grotto Masters, new COS members and POTENTIAL COS members who get very turned off by this treatment. Andre has stirred up shit with just about ANYONE that seems to be Satanic. Now I saw this with my own eyes. He even tried to interfere with me and my colleagues handling the Panther shit - but I told him to butt the fuck out and called Peter Gilmore and told Peter to tell him to butt the fuck out and STAY OUT. So I saw this. I had also heard a LOT about this offline - again, years of it I heard. Since I had to deal with it myself I told Peter Gilmore myself. Apparently, he is aware of it. Peggy Nadramia said that there has to be PROOF, not just someone making a claim. The problem with claims is that well after Andre really pissed a person off, the person FLAMED HIM BACK; and well after Andre THREATENED a person "I'll throw you out of the COS, I'll kick your ass," the person, pissed off, made BIGGER threats back. The threats made TO Andre were shown to Peggy. The "do the dirty tricks back" done TO Andre were shown to Peggy. What came before was never shown. Peggy then writes the predicted note to the person to stop doing this and well - some folks got VERY VERY PISSED and some folks DO NOT take this laying down: they get even. With who? With Andre? Nope. With Peggy. ! With all of COS!
3. Very important fact here that the enemies of COS DO NOT KNOW: The fascist clique is ALSO treated like shit by Andre! The enemies of the COS think that all these people are following orders from Andre or that they are all "with him" on everything he says. This is NOT SO! Who specifically did Andre treat really bad that I documented and showed to Peggy (by copying their own testimony)? Ygraine and her husband, Jacqueline and her husband, and Jeff Nagy. I believe Ygraine got booted out of the COS by Doc once due to that Klan stuff. I'm not sure. The SCS are all "into" the Nazi mystique and enamoured of the worst and STUPIDEST aspects of Japanese society (NOT the Ninjas who were satanic), and old hat, proven so wrong it could be trashed, aspects of "19th century philosophy" which they "prefer" over the undefiled truths of neurophysiology which is PURELY CARNAL. Their line is identical to the TOS line: man is NOT an animal, man is more. Bullshit.. These people talk as if they ARE ADEPTS in the TOS when they talk this shit, yet they are wholly unaware of how UN-COS this all is? Even Rev. Ventrue had to debate with them about animal intelligence. Oh, but he let them slide despite the FACT that what they were saying was PURE TOS. And Jeff Nagy has told people that he is a die hard Nazi, a foot stomping skin head. And apparently "everyone knows that." (I'll tell ya, "Evolution, Christians and Setians," and "COS Versus TOS" OUGHT TO BE mandatory reading BEFORE these people get into the COS. Does someone imagine that Phil wrote that for his own pleasure? It was to enlighten the benighted IDIOTS out there).
4. I'm on line now and people see me as "the Magistra." Hoolah. NO ONE knows that I don't know ANY of these people (fact: I thought Jill Panther was Mrs. Gidney when I flamed her as I had once before flamed a Mrs. Gidney for slandering Karl of COS for "being fat." I thought Carl Panther was Infinity Square. I thought the SCS was part of MIB grotto. I thought Merciless was a Priest in the COS and that Les Masters was in the COS! I.e., I know NO ONE). People assume I read all those posts because I post to a few of them? I am mostly on the anthropology ng. People can assume anything they want. PEGGY AND PETER KNOW that I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE!!! That's what is important. THEY KNOW: no one else knows.
5. I start getting complaints from people that see I have an open ear and see I am willing to answer questions, which they thank me for. They see I'm objective and that I DO NOT FLAME ANYONE unless they flame me. They see that I flame anti-cos people and supposedly pro-cos people (Like Lupo who is stuck back there in time) IF THEY FLAME ME. They see that I flame no one else; they see I contribute to a thread if the dialogue is interesting - apparently I don't seem to care if the person I'm posting to on the thread is in COS, not in COS, friendly or hostile to COS. So I get complaints from those that HOPE I have an open and objective mind about things.
6. I tell Peggy. Peggy needs proof. I start to get it and I then GET A LOT OF HELP getting it. Then finally - I GET ON CHAT. I find satannet. I get mirc. All that.
7. Now: I hint at a "tone" to set. It's evident to me that the room reeks of "I love what I imagine to be fascists" (sexual sublimation!) when I first arrive. No matter. I know quite a lot about that period (FOR REAL). I can talk Nazi better than Nazis can talk Nazi, too. So I set a tone a little bit, very slight. The first SURPRISING thing I find out is from Jacqueline: she and her husband do not even TALK to Andre Schlesinger! OH WOW! I inform her that enemies of COS think otherwise and that's very clear from the things they post on the ng. Since the "tone" from previous non-chat was that "Andre created Egan and the two feed each other," and that "poor Peggy, she doesn't seem to know what Andre is getting away with." I use that, I carry that tone forth. I TELL Jacqueline that I'd collect facts about destructive behavior and give it to Peter Gilmore. She tells me things. She tells me she is great, close friends with Ygraine who is "such a wonderful person." (By this time, I realize that Ygraine is NOT Jill Panther; but I have NO IDEA who she is). So Jacqueline tells me the story of her misadventure with Andre Schlesinger. In fact, she calls me up on the phone.
8. The next time I'm in chat, Ygraine JUMPS into a chance to PM (private message) me. Immediately. She tells me a WHOLE STORY in chat and then emails the whole rest of it. Obviously she REALLY WANTS TO TELL ME THIS. And my tone remains: Andre created Egan and the two feed each other (she seemed to agree, from her own conversations with Les Masters, that this was a "thing" between Egan and Andre); and that "poor Peggy, she doesn't know." But I add "But PETER knows." Strange: had I known anything about who Ygraine was, or that she knew Pete and Peg so well, or that she was such great friends with Peggy, I'd NOT have used that line. She could have said "But what Peter knows, Peggy knows." But she did NOT say that! Hmm. She also asked me to phone her: I did. She just reiterated what she had said in the emails but in a more colorful fashion. Yawn: soap opera. Why she'd let a person walk on her like that - or take any of it, is AMAZING. A real martyr - for COS? And so, I have more information on file which will be sent all to Peter (ONLY to Peter at this point) at a later date when I get more.
9. Nagy (Trocar) gets to see that "Tani doesn't like Andre" tho I don't know how he saw it since he didn't see it per se. He saw Andre being his rude self to me in the chat room but no big deal. He had to have HEARD it to bolster up what he saw in the chat. By now, they all think I know everyone, including Andre. Fine. Let them think that. The story is that I don't like Andre and I'm kinda "tight" with these others that don't like him. Again, Poor Peggy doesn't know how awful Andre is; but Peter knows.
10. Nagy talks more: see this log, where Trocar is Nagy and NKVD is Tani.
Session Start: Wed Mar 29 01:14:10 2000 [01:16] <trocar> I guess Rev S does not know who you are... [01:17] <NKVD> I don't think he cares. [01:18] <trocar> Being in the Magistrate myself, he attacted me and many other folks as well...inferiority complex maybe? [01:18] <trocar> and, he probably does not care [01:18] <NKVD> He's getting mighty cocky if you ask me. [01:19] <trocar> always does...kicked me the first few times I was here...I quickly put a stop to that [01:20] <trocar> ban you, what is he talking about? [01:20] <NKVD> he's being insufferable. Session Close: Wed Mar 29 01:20:55 2000
Session Start: Wed Mar 29 01:22:14 2000 [01:22] <NKVD> He's being in sufferable. And don't be too sure about who he's good friends with. Peter is not a fool. [01:23] <trocar> well, honestly, he calls them his bosses...P&P live very near him and defend him fairly ruthlessly [01:23] <NKVD> P and P also told him to get the fuck out of my business when I was pulling a scam to trap Red and other anti Cos ppl. [01:23] <NKVD> At least I really GET enemies. [01:23] <trocar> and I have known P&P for damn near 10 years...he is just there 'guy' [01:23] <NKVD> He just flames them and gives them fucking publickty. [01:24] <NKVD> He goes around saying they are his bosses; then he acts horribly. Guess who gets the bad rep? [01:24] <trocar> true, I dislike Rev S' tacticts, and I have a serious issue with him myself [01:24] <NKVD> 99% of the COS has the same issue. [01:24] <NKVD> And guess what else Trocar? [01:24] <trocar> I know [01:24] <trocar> what? [01:25] <NKVD> Egan would go away if Schles was gone. Egan exists because of what Schles DID. [01:25] <trocar> really? [01:25] <trocar> I have no clue, I am new to most of this online stuff [01:25] <NKVD> Les Masters, that whole crowd would QUIT FCOS, they'd just stop all of it if this person vanished [01:26] <NKVD> Egan might want to continue, but he'd lose all his people. [01:26] <trocar> all I know, is I was a good frind of Doc LaVey's, and I do not think he would like what goes on here online...especially from Rev S [01:26] <NKVD> I know Doc would hate it with every cell in his body. [01:26] <trocar> indeed [01:28] <NKVD> they think that SCS and you and everyone else are all his buddies! That's funny! [01:28] <trocar> far from it.. I tolerate him at best [01:28] <NKVD> I'm learning this. He has no buddies. [01:28] <trocar> yeah, I know he worked for Herman Slater back in the day [01:28] <NKVD> I read the posts. All the flaming, it all boils down to him and his actions. [01:29] <trocar> but, his actions are empty and idle primarily [01:29] <NKVD> ppl talk to me. I let galen talk. he is anti cos. Iswitch the subject toeconomics as a tactic. [01:29] <NKVD> he feels freer to talk more. I told Iron will. [01:29] <NKVD> Galen is anti Blanche. [01:29] <NKVD> So I found this out by letting him talk. [01:30] <trocar> have you relayed any of this info by Peter and Peggy? [01:30] <NKVD> about galen? No, I just found out. I told Iron. that's good enough, right? [01:30] <trocar> and yes, I love letting people talk, give them enough rope... [01:30] <trocar> about your ideas regarding Rev S I meant.. [01:30] <NKVD> Andre goes around saying "when I'm a Magister,I'll kick you out" to people. yeah, I told Pete and peg that. [01:31] <NKVD> bully. [01:31] <trocar> yes [01:31] <NKVD> I showed them evidence of Andre saying "p and P are my bosses" and acting like a soldier [01:31] <trocar> are you the one that works on stuff with Phillip Marsh? [01:31] <NKVD> There are many against him. [01:31] <NKVD> yes, Phil marsh and I have been together 25 years! [01:32] <trocar> okay.. cool [01:32] <NKVD> The beef is that "everyone" lets this shit slide. [01:32] <trocar> just trying to remember what else you have done.. [01:32] <NKVD> Roots 1, Roots 2, Dark docrtrines. We got rid of TOS back then. We got rid of Red too. [01:32] <NKVD> Took them out. [01:33] <NKVD> We didn't just flame them ahem. We REALLY did shit to them. [01:33] <NKVD> You realize 99% of COS feels this way? [01:33] <trocar> I have spoke up to Peter and Peggy, both of who are great friends of mine...I hate Andres actions...but, they always defend him...although not as much lately [01:34] <NKVD> yes. Because I didn't just speak out, Tro, I showed them PROOF. I'm good at catching people. [01:34] <trocar> 99% feeks this way about Andre? [01:34] <NKVD> yes. [01:34] <NKVD> scs feels that way. [01:34] <NKVD> I'm sure you know that. [01:34] <trocar> yes, they do I am sure [01:34] <NKVD> everyone I know in COS feels that way [01:34] <NKVD> You need to get evidence, not just a verbal or written complaint. [01:34] <trocar> well, if enough of us keep bringing it up to P&P, make sure they cannot ignore it...well.. [01:35] <NKVD> Do you know how much Doc hated bullies? [01:35] <NKVD> he'd get physically violent against them even. [01:35] <NKVD> He gives the impression that the damned COS is a dictatorship and he is the Fuehrer. [01:35] <trocar> I would think with my status. my frindship with P&P. they would naturally trust me...but, yes they always ask for peroof, but mainly I am on java, and I could not log shit [01:36] <NKVD> Get mirc. It's a small file and really nice. [01:36] <NKVD> I'm new at this and I have it. [01:36] <trocar> well, I have an imac...I do not think mirc works for me [01:37] <NKVD> I've pulled off some things against Red with Jeff. [01:37] <NKVD> what is imac? [01:37] <trocar> Jeff who? [01:37] <NKVD> Jeff Gerber. P and P saw him on TV. [01:37] <NKVD> Anti Racial Busing Campaign? [01:37] <trocar> not familiar with him.. [01:37] <NKVD> He's a holy terror. [01:37] <NKVD> so am I in real life if I get going on someone. [01:38] <trocar> an imac is a macintosh, I cannot download mirc, I tried.. [01:38] <NKVD> You say not as much lately, they defend him less. Can you explain that? [01:38] <NKVD> Andy has a macintosh. how does he get on here? [01:39] <trocar> yes, I finally cited some examples of his running off at the mouth of some sensitive issues, that ONLY he would know and only THEY would have told him.. [01:39] <NKVD> GOOD. [01:39] <trocar> Andy would not tell me [01:39] <NKVD> Andy would not tell you what, how to get mirc? [01:39] <trocar> correct [01:40] <trocar> I think he is jealous of me, and does not want to help me [01:40] <NKVD> He's a horrible person, imo. [01:40] <trocar> he would not be on my satanic welcome wagon [01:40] <NKVD> He rags on people online just for asking questions. I answer them politely because it's NOT easy to find info about cos on the web. Even Doc was not a computer wiz. [01:41] <NKVD> so I answer politely, but his damage is already done. [01:41] <trocar> Doc disliked computers [01:41] <NKVD> i know. [01:41] <NKVD> I used to dislike them too until I got one :) [01:41] <trocar> Docs computers were nothing more than elaborate type writers [01:42] <NKVD> Tro, what about Iron. Is he in tight with A or not? [01:42] <trocar> I still dislike my computer, but it has a weird addictive quality [01:42] <trocar> Iron is someone who I do not know really [01:42] <NKVD> He has been friendly to me and Chaos and I helped him get a page for his web and an article. [01:43] <NKVD> Look what Andre just wrote to me as he split: "it is Andre, NOT "Andy" [01:43] <trocar> until a few months ago I spent my time writing, travelling, going to school... i never concerned myself with net activities, but now I see them, and am disgusted [01:43] <NKVD> Yeah, lots of negative shit happening for COS. At least my posts are positive and get good relations going. [01:43] <NKVD> Even the fcos doesn't flame me anymore. [01:43] <NKVD> They leave me alone. [01:44] <NKVD> I refuse to get involved in Andy's problem - which is what FCOS is. [01:44] <NKVD> I don't understand why P and P would tell him sensitive stuff. It's beyond me how they could like such a person. [01:44] <trocar> I remember Dewy from back in his NAMBLA and TOS days...Brimstone Productions...unintentionally funny [01:45] <NKVD> yes, I knew dewey back then too. [01:45] <trocar> were you ever in the TOS? [01:45] <NKVD> hell no. [01:45] <NKVD> you? [01:46] <trocar> I had a few friends from the TOS back in 88-89, andd they all laughed at Dewey back then [01:46] <NKVD> Dewey wanted to include Horus and so? they parted ways. [01:46] <trocar> I had a run in with them for a few months..saw through them and left, yes [01:46] <NKVD> Then I didn't hear hide or hare of dewey for years. [01:47] <NKVD> Tro, find out about the mirc from the mac people if you have to. We have to have hard evidence. Logs. [01:47] <NKVD> Everyone has something to say. Noone has proof. [01:47] <trocar> I know, sad isn't it? [01:48] <NKVD> Yes. It's a catastrophe. [01:48] <trocar> you would think with a bunch of folks, respected folks, that P&P would see the, uh, light.. [01:48] <NKVD> I can't figure it out tho. How could such a miserable person who Peggy knows "is not friendly" make her fall for this? [01:49] <NKVD> You are friends with Xloptuny and Jacqui right? [01:49] <NKVD> good people. [01:49] <trocar> yes, they seem to be good folks.. [01:49] <NKVD> they don't talk to Andy either. did you know that? [01:49] <trocar> I would not be surprised [01:49] <NKVD> Jacqui told me. I was surprised! [01:50] <trocar> Peter will be performing a wedding ritual for them in April or MAy [01:50] <NKVD> The perception, because everyone jumps on egan when Andy starts on him, the perception is that we are all his lap dogs. Notice I say nothing when it goes on. [01:50] <NKVD> The thing maybe to do is stop the PERCEPTION. Let him battle Les and Egan himself. [01:51] <NKVD> That's my strategy. [01:51] <trocar> please do [01:51] <NKVD> You are friends with Xloptuny and Jacqui right? [01:52] <trocar> yep [01:52] <NKVD> The perception, because everyone jumps on egan when Andy starts on him, the perception is that we are all his lap dogs. Notice I say nothing when it goes on. [01:52] <trocar> my wife and I will be meeting them in May, after their marriage from Peter, when they come to San Francisco [01:52] <NKVD> the thing to do is stop the perception. Let HIM battle Les/Egan himself and say NOTHING. [01:52] <NKVD> did you see message? [01:53] <trocar> yep [01:53] <trocar> and I agree [01:53] <NKVD> That is a good strategy. Others might get the clue that "we all" are NOT his lapdogs. We don't defend him. [01:53] <NKVD> This needs to be explained to others. [01:53] <trocar> I have never defended Andre [01:53] <NKVD> They have to stop seeing this as fcos versus cos. They have to start seeing it as fcos versus ANDY. [01:54] <NKVD> Neither have I. [01:54] <trocar> in fact, my treatment of Andre has got me messages from P&P [01:54] <NKVD> I have tried to be cordial to Andy. But that didn't work. [01:54] <trocar> me too [01:54] <NKVD> When he butted into my strategy to nab the Panthers, I bluntly told him to "butt the fuck out of my shit." [01:54] <NKVD> He whined to P and P about Nancy picking on him. She did not. She was joking. He imagines she flirted and was serious. [01:55] <NKVD> lol [01:55] <NKVD> I don't understand it. [01:55] <trocar> I remember that stuff, I think I saw e-mails about what good work you were doing from P&P [01:55] <NKVD> Andy, imo, from what I have seen, is POISON. why does everyone see this, but nothing get done? [01:56] <NKVD> And even those who DO see it. None will come out as firmly as this and just say it: he's poison. [01:56] <trocar> trust me, I have done my part, but like you say, P&P always ask for proof, and I have begun delivering such...and he is sinking...slowly, but sinking [01:56] <trocar> I did [01:57] <NKVD> Jacqui and Xloptuny need to also do this. [01:57] <NKVD> If anyone behaved that way in the tos, Aquino would immediately suspect them of beinga plant. [01:58] <trocar> yep [01:58] <NKVD> You mean A's destruction - or the destruction he's done? [01:58] <trocar> the destruction he has done [01:58] <NKVD> Oh shit. what have I NOT seen? I've only seen a little bit since Sept 99. [01:58] <NKVD> I heard about Kasner, the famous writer. [01:59] <trocar> for the last 10 years I have been a rep of the COS, I have been on TV and in print, I have done my part, only to find out that online, Andre could not have things much more fucked up [02:00] <NKVD> I agree. What else did he do? I know that a lot of ppl that went over to fcos did so exclusively due to him. [02:00] <NKVD> But details? I don't have any. [02:00] <NKVD> We have sold the Doctrines (the stuff Abyss used to sell) for about 10 years and many people joined COS due solely to what was in there. [02:00] <trocar> I have few myself...details, details...so tricky [02:01] <NKVD> Ole Wolf and that whole crowd for example. [02:01] <trocar> I bet [02:01] <NKVD> There are others that come in here too. They say we have to do something to get our church back right. [02:01] <trocar> I would love to see some of the other stuff you have written, but i think what I have is, Set?, the stuff from TBF, and I think that is it [02:02] <NKVD> The list is on vad's website. TBF printed a lot of it, but not all. www.apodion.com/vad/ [02:02] <NKVD> the whole list is on there, click on left "how to contact." [02:02] <trocar> I agree, I talk to Blanche on a regualr basis and we are trying to do just that...get everything 'on track' [02:02] <NKVD> Does Blanche realize the damage Andre is doing???? [02:03] <trocar> Blanche is learning about it, but it is that evidence thingy again [02:03] <NKVD> I showed what I had to P and P. [02:04] <trocar> If I had a few things, CONCRETE things, I would take them o her myself.. [02:04] <NKVD> I had the email from Chuch showing the chats I showed. The email from Andy to me at another computer acting like a sheeple taking orders from the bosses. and other things he has done online. [02:05] <NKVD> I didn't save any of it! (yipes. ok, I'm off to the gulag...) [02:05] <NKVD> What happened is that the account in deja got cancelled and it was saved in there! [02:05] <NKVD> all gone. [02:05] <NKVD> nancy's stuff is gone, virus got into her computer. [02:05] <trocar> hehe, see evidence is hard...anything can be taken out of context in chat logs... [02:05] <NKVD> Butwhat Andy wrote me was hard evidence. [02:06] <trocar> I bet [02:06] <NKVD> Even this here shit is. [02:06] <NKVD> Do you know Ventrue's email? And is HE friends with Andy?? [02:06] <trocar> I do not know the status of their relationship no, and his e-mail is somewhere on satannet....sorry, I have no particulrs [02:07] <NKVD> ach... I gotta go searching. [02:07] <NKVD> What difference does it make if a person is on two chats at the same time. also, how can anyone tell? [02:08] <trocar> you type /whois nickname and nickserv shows it to you [02:08] <trocar> *** NKVD is slavaya@FTMYB103-47.splitrock.net (Commissar) [02:08] <NKVD> No I don't mean that. I mean, I'm on here now. how can you tell if I log onto atheism right now? [02:09] <trocar> not too hard, unfortunately [02:09] <NKVD> in other words, if I was on BOTH satannet and atheism at the sametime. How would anyone know where to look and how could they find out? [02:09] <trocar> I would do a whois on you to find out. [02:09] <NKVD> you'd find out I'm HERE. [02:09] <trocar> they would type /whois nkvd... [02:10] <NKVD> You mean they'd have to go TO #atheism and then find NKVD and type whois? [02:10] <trocar> like this: ** Damnation is firstname.lastname@example.org (SatanLovesYou666@hotmail.com) [02:10] <trocar> see all channles [02:11] <NKVD> I understand that. OK, wait. [02:11] <NKVD> ok. do the whois and tell me what you can see. [02:12] <NKVD> tro, are you there?? [02:12] <trocar> *** NKVD is slavaya@FTMYB103-47.splitrock.net (Commissar) [02:12] <trocar> all night cafe? [02:12] <NKVD> yes! [02:13] <trocar> I hope I am [02:13] <NKVD> I just logged on anything in the folder [02:13] <trocar> so, at any time, anyone can see where you are....bummer [02:13] <NKVD> ah ha. so I'll email Rev.V and talk to him about this. I announced the channel. [02:14] <NKVD> Still, it's easier to talk on ONE channel at a time! [02:14] <trocar> sounds cool [02:14] <trocar> yep [02:14] <trocar> have you had the opportunity to meet P&P? [02:14] <NKVD> No. just by phone. We don't travel out due to Phil's job 2 hours EVERY night 365 days a year. [02:15] <NKVD> LOTS by phone tho. [02:15] <trocar> wow, every day? [02:15] <trocar> may I ask what he does? [02:15] <NKVD> yes. but it's only 2 hours. [02:15] <NKVD> courrier! [02:15] <NKVD> lots of money. one of those "racket" jobs. [02:15] <NKVD> 2 hours is NOTHING, from 3AM to 5 AM! [02:15] <trocar> cool...I thought you meant newpaper man.. [02:16] <trocar> although good money there too [02:16] <NKVD> he brings the Amway to the dealers. that's it. [02:16] <trocar> groovy [02:16] <NKVD> There are requirements - he has to have a backup vehicle and driver. I guess me and Jeff could pull it off if something happened. [02:17] <NKVD> It's a perfect kind of pt job. We moved here basically to retire! [02:17] <NKVD> 14 hours a week is ALMOST retired. [02:17] <trocar> man, each time you say Jeff, I think you mean me...weird [02:17] <NKVD> lol [02:17] <NKVD> I didn't know your name was Jeff. [02:17] <trocar> yep [02:18] <trocar> good old Magister Jeff [02:18] <NKVD> You are magister too? [02:18] <trocar> if 27 is old [02:18] <trocar> yes, I am [02:18] <NKVD> Are you Nagy???? [02:18] <trocar> shhh [02:19] <NKVD> You gotta be kidding! You are Magister for my friend Vad's grotto! [02:19] <trocar> yes, but no one here knows that... [02:19] <trocar> yes [02:19] <NKVD> no one here knows you are Nagy? [02:19] <trocar> Vad is one of my people [02:19] <NKVD> yes. He's one of "the gang" too with my clique. [02:19] <trocar> nope, around here I am only trocar [02:20] <NKVD> Tro, does Andy know you are Nagy? [02:20] <trocar> I think so [02:20] <NKVD> How? [02:20] <NKVD> do you know ppl think you died? lol [02:20] <trocar> my IP address is the same as the one Magister Nagy posts from...but, at least he has kept that to himself [02:21] <trocar> yes, I died of rabies.... i committed suicide [02:21] <NKVD> No. He posted to the FCOS when they said you were dead that "I talked to Nagy just ten minutes ago." [02:21] <NKVD> Tro...we are in a very VERY good position to DO something in the manner of gathering evidences. [02:22] <NKVD> You tell Ole and Vad that you spoke to me about this problem in the COS and they'll listen up! [02:22] <trocar> I know...and I am [02:22] <trocar> I am sure they will...good people [02:22] <NKVD> Yes, but they don't know you have talked to me. And I didn't know you at all! [02:22] <NKVD> Ole definitely wants to fix this. [02:22] <NKVD> Vad is a tad slow on the email answering. [02:23] <trocar> well, hi my name is Jeff Nagy, pleased to meet you [02:23] <NKVD> Vad has all our stuff on the website. Hi I'm Tani Jantsang, GLAD we spoke!! [02:23] <trocar> me too [02:23] <NKVD> You live in Denmark? [02:24] <trocar> Doc thought hoghly of you, so that makes you a comrade [02:24] <NKVD> Yes, you are my Comrade too! [02:24] <trocar> I live in California [02:24] <NKVD> I sent Doc a LOT of music, he loved it. [02:24] <trocar> San Francisco area [02:24] <NKVD> wow, you live far from Denmark! [02:24] <NKVD> oh, we have a plan. [02:24] <NKVD> I'll let Ole know and Vad that I spoke to you. OK? [02:25] <trocar> cool...but, trocar is just trocar... [02:25] <NKVD> Ole has to join the grotto then. HE HAS TO. [02:25] <trocar> he lives near Vad? [02:25] <NKVD> OK. on here trocar is just trocar. But I can tell Ole and VAd? I'll have to if we want to do this. [02:26] <trocar> sure, you can tell them you talked to me..but, trocar does not know a thing [02:26] <NKVD> Yes. Ole and Vad know each other VERY VERY well, they both live near each other. [02:26] <NKVD> ok. [02:26] <NKVD> Do you ever send emails as Nagy? [02:26] <trocar> they both have my e-mail at email@example.com [02:26] <trocar> all my e-mails are maginagy, yep [02:26] <NKVD> OK. Do this. EMAIL ME firstname.lastname@example.org [02:27] <trocar> okay [02:27] <NKVD> Say in the messasge: you may convey to Ole and Vad what we spoke about regarding the resolving of a problem. [02:27] <trocar> okay [02:27] <trocar> sounds groovy to me [02:28] <NKVD> I put you in my perm address thing, as NAGY, not trocar. OK? [02:28] <trocar> okay...sounds good [02:29] <NKVD> You emailing?? [02:29] <trocar> patience....but, sure [02:30] <NKVD> As soon as I get, I'll explain what it's about and forward it to them. [02:30] <NKVD> btw, we are brutally open with each other. [02:30] <trocar> what what is about...the ANdre deal? [02:31] <NKVD> yes, what THAT is about. That. the Andre deal. [02:31] <trocar> okay [02:31] <trocar> you sound gung ho [02:31] <NKVD> I've been pestered by many MANY people about this, long prior to getting online. [02:32] <NKVD> I chocked it off to sensitive people, but no. I have seen it with my own eyes here. and on the ng. [02:33] <NKVD> Doc was great people, everyone in COS was always great people. But if I was a newcomer and ran into the likes of Andre? I'd think the worst thing possible about cos. You see, now I realize WHY people are saying such things about our church - AND ABOUT US! [02:34] <trocar> me too, and I agree [02:34] <NKVD> That's why I'm gung ho. I only hope we are not too LATE. [02:34] <trocar> but, P&P are quite sensitive about him, he is a good person to them.. [02:35] <NKVD> mildew will have to fall from eyes then. he's good to them so long as they are his bosses. And if he was a Magister they'd no longer be his bosses. I told Peter this. He said "ho ho, I know." [02:35] <NKVD> on the phone. [02:36] <trocar> well, I have been freinds with P&P for 10 years, and NEVER considered them bosses, just frinds and mentors [02:36] <NKVD> if they see the truth - and I think, am pretty sure, Peter does. [02:37] <trocar> it would be nice, but I know P&P will be disappopinted [02:37] <NKVD> Exactly. I talked to Peter one on one. [02:38] <NKVD> Tro, p and P also took Valentine into their home, let him sleep there, gave him food and clothing. And? [02:38] <trocar> when I talk to Peter I like to talk about noble things, I almost hate wasting my time speaking of Andre, almost a moot point with them... [02:38] <NKVD> What else is new. [02:38] <NKVD> I called him specifically due to Andy's butting into my business regarding clearning up the mess the Panthers made. [02:39] <trocar> good [02:39] <trocar> the more fols that speak up the better [02:39] <trocar> folks [02:39] <NKVD> I had to mention Andy and I said my mind right there. He's a lap dog and how much does a lap dog love his bosses? Not at all. The lap dog HATES his bosses. And when and if the bosses are no longer the boss? Watch your back. [02:39] <NKVD> He said "ho ho,I know." [02:40] <trocar> yes, I always think that Andre has access to far too much info for just one fella, and OH how that could be used against us in the long run...if he ever played 'hurt Mikey' [02:40] <NKVD> Well. They shouldn't have at least learned from their own past mistakes: Mikey, Valentine, and so many others. [02:41] <trocar> yes, they have, as did I, in the past, made mistakes out of a general love for satanism.. [02:41] <NKVD> NO ONE would believe him. Even the damned fcos wouldn't believe anything Andy had to say! [02:42] <NKVD> I told Peter that Andy S is his own personal "Andre Soly." I think he knew what I meant. Oh,I let Soly into my home too and delivered him back where he came from in a coffin. That's the truth. He is DEAD. [02:42] <trocar> I want the COS to return to the days of magic, the days of gaurded information, the days of chance encounters and the days of nobility [02:43] <NKVD> the ppl were friendly back then. [02:44] <trocar> indeed, I remember how much I appreciated my time with Doc, with P&P, with others in the Priesthood, and now anyone can have immidiate access...impersonal and goofy [02:44] <trocar> did you get my e-mail? [02:44] <NKVD> I didn't check. I'd have to log on there to get it. [02:44] <NKVD> hold on. if I get booted off here, I'll get back on. [02:44] <NKVD> ok? [02:44] <trocar> okay, but it should be there [02:45] <trocar> okay [02:45] <NKVD> OK,but I might get booted off HERE by going there. Sometimes that happens. [02:45] <NKVD> Gimme about 3 minutes. it takes that long! [02:45] <trocar> okay [02:55] <NKVD> ok, I'm back! DONE. I sent it TWICE from two emails of mine! [02:56] <trocar> groovy [02:56] <NKVD> Man, I had "rookies" whining at me so much and I ended up yelling that I can't DO anything more than I've already done. Just show examples of bad behavior. [02:56] <NKVD> And the way he treats me in this chat room? I guess you too? [02:57] <trocar> yep, me too [02:57] <trocar> he is indiscriminate [02:57] <NKVD> It has to stop. I have to wonder. How can he get away with it. [02:57] <NKVD> He has NO respect for people Doc himself chose? [02:57] <trocar> I have no idea...and because noone has given sufficient proof, I suppose [02:57] <NKVD> Now, question. May I also tell the rookies that I spoke with Nagy? [02:58] <NKVD> That's two Magistrates. [02:58] <trocar> his treatment of folks how outrank him is just weird, I would never cut down someone Doc hand picked...not my style [02:58] <NKVD> You mean Andy has not given sufficient proof? he doesn't talk to you? That's weird right there. [02:59] <trocar> nope, he either ignores me, or I hear second hand about him bashing me [02:59] <NKVD> Holy shit. [02:59] <trocar> so, it is like nailing custard to the wall someimes.. [03:00] <NKVD> not if we get proof and I know plenty of ways to do it! [03:00] <NKVD> can I tell the rookies that i spoke with Nagy? [03:00] <NKVD> I WILL NOT say you are Trocar. I'll forget this. [03:01] <trocar> sure, Nagy spoke to you, trocar is just a groovy chat guy.. [03:01] <NKVD> Karla had kinda the personality,the PUBLIC thing. Blanche is hard worker. [03:01] <NKVD> Right. NAGY talked. But who is trocar? I know him from chat. [03:02] <trocar> I met Karla after Doc died, just before she moved out and sued...she seemed sincere, but she gathered info on me that other folks used...messy, messy [03:02] <NKVD> Tro, did you know Chaos took my article on Tree of Destruction, rewrote it and submitted it to his class and got an A on it? [03:02] <trocar> cool, or is that plagarism? [03:02] <NKVD> Vad took info I gave him on primates and used it for his college MA degree essay! [03:02] <trocar> groovy [03:02] <NKVD> I said he could do it! But yeah, if his teacher found out...ooo w Session Close: Wed Mar 29 03:04:50 2000
Session Start: Wed Mar 29 03:07:20 2000 [03:07] <Narodnik> ok.. [03:07] <trocar> alright [03:07] <NKVD> I'm here. lol. Iron booted me off?? [03:08] <trocar> is it not late there in Florida? [03:08] <NKVD> It's only 3 AM here. I go to bed abounr 7 AM normally. [03:08] <trocar> nocturnal? [03:08] <NKVD> super much. [03:08] <NKVD> I have to force myself to get up 1 pm in summer for beach, otherwise I sleep till about 3p [03:09] <NKVD> What were we saying when I got booted off.? [03:09] <NKVD> OH, Karla. [03:09] <NKVD> P and P used to think the best of her, real people she was. Then all of a sudden they said otherwise. [03:10] <NKVD> I think the two should have stuck it out and stayed together. [03:10] <trocar> yep, when I met her she seemed so sincere [03:10] <trocar> I gave her some info that she used against me... [03:10] <NKVD> Maybe there were things going on we don't know about. [03:11] <trocar> I was there during the whole suing process...ugly, ugly [03:11] <NKVD> Yeah,I was tellingy ou. I had heard negative stuff against you too but in one ear,out other. I'm objective like that. I didn't know one way or the other. [03:11] <trocar> what negative stuff, if I may ask?> [03:11] <trocar> beside my suicide? [03:11] <NKVD> Some said that you trashed the stuff we sell. But that was said after the person said that you framed him and got him kicked from COS. [03:12] <trocar> I have not seen what you sell...how could I trash? [03:12] <NKVD> OH...Raptis. that's who. [03:12] <NKVD> They lied. In fact,you bought some of what we sell and said you liked it. Guess they didn'tkow that. [03:13] <trocar> Raptis is angry because I had him remove an interview hw did with me, he hates my guts [03:13] <trocar> Raptis is a lost cause [03:13] <NKVD> Listento this. Evidence! I was talking to Druis from Australia. She was telling me how bad Raptis is and that she being abused. She wants to keep Raptis out of the COS and wanted my help. She had dirt on him, said he's a cut throat that would do ANYTHING to get his way. [03:13] <NKVD> She was about to tell me the information and ANDY got on and booted her off [03:14] <NKVD> He's an obstructor for sure. What she wanted to tell me was stuff the COS would want to know. [03:14] <NKVD> As usual, Mr. Run to the Rescue Andy gotin the way. [03:14] <trocar> yes, she actually moved to Australia from Cali because of him...now, she has sour grapes.. [03:14] <NKVD> She is in terror, Tro! [03:14] <NKVD> Raptis father has money or connections there. She is in TERROR. [03:15] <trocar> she kind of deserves it, I warned her before she left... [03:15] <trocar> she cannot play blind one on this [03:15] <NKVD> Well still. If she has information about what Raptis is up to or planning to do, don't you think it would have been good if I found it out and gave it to COS? [03:16] <trocar> true. [03:16] <trocar> I just have no sympathy for her [03:16] <NKVD> Tro, what kind of Satanist is Andy anyway? He never reads anything satanic from what I found out! [03:17] <trocar> his thing is conspiracy theories, his ramblings on the Srt Bell show were weak at best, his other meanderings are overseen by P&P [03:18] <NKVD> meanderings into what? conspiracy theories? lol. which one does he subscribe to? the JEWISH one? lol? [03:18] <trocar> Andy is a paranoia freak, and an info junkie... [03:19] <NKVD> He's worse than that: he's a wannabe cop. Radu, my friend, is a REAL cop! [03:20] <NKVD> I never heard Andy on the tv show. [03:20] <trocar> yes, Andre is a want to be everything...just he has never written anything worth reading, drawn anything worth seeing, made music worth hearing, done publicity worth attention, etc....not my kind of satanist.. [03:20] <NKVD> which conspiracy theory does he believe in. [03:20] <NKVD> We sell a Cthulhu Mythos tape - music. original. mine. [03:20] <trocar> I have no idea which conspiracies he enjoys [03:20] <NKVD> Protocols of the Learned elders stuff? [03:21] <trocar> I would love to hear your music [03:22] <NKVD> It's on audio tape. check out on vads, all the information is there. Under the Satanic doctrines stuff is the Cthulhu Mythos stuff. [03:23] <trocar> so, how does one get a hold of your music? [03:24] <NKVD> You missed messages, let me copy repeat. [03:24] <trocar> yep, I got myself booted [03:24] <NKVD> It's on audio tape. check out on vads, all the information is there. Under the Satanic doctrines stuff is the Cthulhu Mythos stuff. [03:24] <NKVD> you can mail me 60 minute blank tape, I'll record it. [03:24] <NKVD> free [03:24] <trocar> cool...what address? [03:24] <NKVD> the stuff does sell, for sure. [03:24] <NKVD> Weinberg books [03:24] <NKVD> po box 85 Lehigh Acres. FL 33970-0085 [03:25] <trocar> so, if I send a blank tape, you will make me a copy? [03:26] <NKVD> yes! gimme po box [03:26] <trocar> you want my PO BOx? [03:27] <trocar> PO Box 1324 Stockton CA 95201 [03:27] <NKVD> How else can I send you a tape? [03:27] <trocar> I thought I had to send you a blank tape? [03:27] <NKVD> ok, got it. [03:27] <NKVD> yes, you send blank, I make tape. I also have tape I DONT sell of satanic stuff! [03:27] <NKVD> 90 minutes. [03:28] <NKVD> Also music I sent Doc, but - it's ballroom music, I don't know if you'd like it. I made the tape for myself and love it. [03:28] <trocar> so, should I send two tapes? [03:28] <NKVD> Then I heard he liked too so I sent. [03:28] <NKVD> yes. if you want satanic stuff. send one 60 min and another 90 min. [03:28] <trocar> oh, hell ya, I love that kind of music [03:28] <NKVD> You like ballroom music??? [03:28] <trocar> yes, I am weird... [03:28] <NKVD> Like Doc liked? [03:28] <trocar> yep [03:29] <NKVD> OH. in that case lol, sent THREE 90 minute tapes and one 60 minute one. [03:29] <trocar> I loved Doc's late night serenades at the Black House [03:29] <NKVD> I love that stuff too, after all, I made the tape. [03:29] <NKVD> yeah! Doc went to town when he got my tapes. [03:29] <NKVD> Blanche told me, he was playing the stuff. I seny him Russian music too which flipped him out. [03:29] <NKVD> I redid his Satanic Anthem which he loved, he was surprised that SOMEONE redid it! [03:29] <trocar> I even have some music on the organ Doc did years ago...1950's or 60's [03:30] <NKVD> oh, can you send?? [03:30] <NKVD> they play that stuff at clubs we belong to. [03:30] <trocar> I am sure I can do that [03:30] <NKVD> great! [03:30] <trocar> great [03:31] <trocar> and yes, Doc got me into the whole Russian Romantic vibe [03:31] <NKVD> send 3 90 minute tapes, and one 60 min then. just write down "2 for keyboard, 2 for satanic, 1 for cthulhu" so I'll remember. [03:31] <NKVD> yeah. I mailed doc 2 or 3 tapes of great Russian folk stuff, he flipped over it. [03:31] <trocar> I bet he did [03:32] <NKVD> Most of the people at the clubs we go to are our age or much MUCH older, but we dance man, we are good ballroom dancers. [03:32] <NKVD> Chuck Shaddoway and his wife are learning. they are also good people (and also hate Andy for good reasons). [03:32] <trocar> that is great [03:32] <NKVD> We got stuff in commmon! [03:32] <trocar> I am very much into the swing era.. [03:33] <NKVD> damn! [03:33] <trocar> forgotten music of the 30's. 40 's [03:33] <NKVD> too bad you and some others don't live down here! [03:33] <NKVD> I played that stuff on my tapes. great music. [03:33] <trocar> I had my time in the swamps... [03:33] <NKVD> lol, this ain't swamps,it's a resort area. [03:33] <NKVD> I make jokes about it. where I live used to be woods. [03:33] <NKVD> not any more. [03:34] <trocar> well, someday when my wife and I make our Florida vacation, we will drop in.. [03:34] <NKVD> Hell yes! [03:34] <trocar> it'll be swank [03:34] <NKVD> Do you want to go public again and chat? [03:35] <trocar> not really...I do not like much of the public [03:35] <NKVD> Looks like Chaos left, but Meta is on there. [03:35] <trocar> but, I have some things to attend to anyhow.. [03:35] <NKVD> ok. [03:36] <trocar> It was a pleasure typing with you, and perhaps we wil do that again at some point...and I will send off some tapes in the next few days [03:36] <NKVD> OK. I'll make the copies and get them off asap too. [03:36] <trocar> great...Hail! [03:36] <NKVD> HAIL!! Session Close: Wed Mar 29 03:36:49 2000
Later: this is after I collected MUCH of it for Peter - and also for Nagy himself since he seemed to want it or I thought he would want it.
Session Start: Tue Apr 11 23:40:39 2000 [23:41] <NKVD> did you get the emails? As promised, I clicked and saved. Might get more. [23:41] <NKVD> the attachments on that email... [23:41] <trocar> sure did, lotsa reading. [23:41] <NKVD> yes indeed. Seen together it's PHEWW!!! [23:41] <trocar> have yet to get to the attachments [23:41] <NKVD> You didn't get attachments??? [23:41] <NKVD> They went with the email yesterday.. [23:41] <NKVD> I can resend. [23:42] <NKVD> there were about 10 or more. [23:42] <trocar> no, I have them , I have yet to read em though [23:42] <NKVD> ok. Sit down!!! [23:42] <NKVD> I hope it's good enough. [23:42] <trocar> got that going on, a magazine I may ir may not publish, friends to see, schoolwork to do, photographs to take, etc [23:43] <NKVD> You are busy. I have a lot of time! [23:43] <trocar> I thought you wrote a lot? [23:43] <NKVD> I still have a lot of time :) [23:43] <trocar> I saw your pic and mini bio on Miss Szandora'a site [23:44] <trocar> interesting gal you are [23:44] <NKVD> Yes, those are nice pictures. Taken around 1992 I think, around then. [23:44] <NKVD> I got short hair now. Too hot. [23:44] <trocar> I bet [23:45] <trocar> I expected, quite honestly to see a bookwormish style chick, but you are quite a enchanting witch! [23:45] <NKVD> I've kept Vad and Ole abreast of everything as promised. I will NOT keep Jacqueline or Ygraine abreast anymore. Jacqui I think panics. Ygraine just talks a lot and is willing to "forget" all that happened to her. Wait till you find out what happened! [23:45] <NKVD> thanks! [23:45] <NKVD> bookworm? [23:45] <NKVD> Well, I'm kinda a nerd- true. [23:45] <trocar> yeah, i dunno where I got that mental image [23:45] <NKVD> But I like to dance and stuff. Boisterous. [23:46] <trocar> what happened with who? [23:46] <NKVD> Ygraine and Android. [23:46] <trocar> when? [23:46] <NKVD> she's willing to "forget" all that.... [23:46] <trocar> oh, I read a lot of that stuff and have heard it from her mouth as well [23:46] <NKVD> It's in the attachments. Last year. She went to HP with it. HP told Peggy and then hoo laa laa. [23:47] <trocar> yeah [23:47] <NKVD> I thought Peggy said "it's not about who's friends with who." Yeah. I know that. [23:47] <NKVD> If $1,000 plus whatever else got lost means nothing - well? [23:47] <trocar> well, I think they feel like they are in a precarious position after being kicked from the COS once... [23:48] <NKVD> Jacqueline too? [23:48] <trocar> no, no...just William I believe [23:48] <trocar> Jacqui is new as is john [23:48] <NKVD> He's not said a word about it. I got some stuff from Jacqueline and Ygraine, Jacuqline I think is prone to panic. [23:48] <trocar> she may well be [23:49] <NKVD> I also sent you a copy of the latest email. Note, that was a private answer to her PM to me on this chat group. She answered it by sending copies to Peggy and ygraine. Why? OK. So I answered in turn with copies to everyone. Whatever. [23:49] <trocar> oh well... [23:50] <trocar> so long as the right people know at the right time [23:50] <NKVD> I don't have a campaign. I'm getting DELUGED with complaints from very promising Satanists who just joined and others that want to join. [23:50] <NKVD> I'm also doing all I can to stop a flame war from erupting due to Andre. I stopped Kelyeti so far and I stopped Nancy too. [23:51] <NKVD> Andy files complaints to their ISP, etc etc. It's all in the stuff you have. [23:51] <NKVD> We need to find out who Koster is. He put a trojan in Faust's computer. [23:51] <NKVD> Caught him. [23:51] <trocar> yeah, I know...I think I will go read it soon, wash it down [23:52] <NKVD> Vad and Ole think that Andy does this to anyone who IS Satanic. [23:52] <trocar> oops, I gotta get, child emerging from bedroom...nightmares...talk at ya soon..give a call sometime! [23:52] <NKVD> Andy had a run in with them too, it seems. [23:52] <NKVD> I don't have your phone. [DELETED] is mine. Session Close: Tue Apr 11 23:55:58 2000
Session Start: Sun Apr 16 03:44:24 2000 [03:44] <Commissar> The file Rachelle sent is not a graphics file. It's some kind of link...?? It can [03:44] <Commissar> not be opened in ANY program, Brendan and I both tried. [03:45] <trocar> well, thank you for trying [03:46] <Commissar> no prob... [03:46] <trocar> be interesting to see who shows up [03:46] <Commissar> you mean on here??? [03:46] <trocar> sure...always is...(well sometimes) [03:47] <Commissar> You are a riot!! [03:47] <trocar> I have not seen Rev S for a while...what a breath of fresh air [03:47] <Commissar> I like BabyE..... YEAH! tell me about it. He was on here the other day, bouncing off everyone (COS members!) [03:48] <trocar> BabyE is a groovy chick [03:48] <Commissar> Jeff, people have not put this together but....every single person that has had some altercation with A.S. has either had viruses/trojans hurled at them that their protection caught, or they now have ruined computers!!! [03:48] <Commissar> Every single person! [03:48] <Commissar> I noticed it because I was collecting the documentation and complaints! [03:48] <trocar> I am not too suprised [03:49] <Commissar> That's illegal as hell. [03:49] <trocar> I am sure it is [03:49] <Commissar> Also one other thing. For NO reason, Gorgos just TOOK Kelyeti (COS) nick, stole it. It was AlphaDark or something like that. [03:49] <Commissar> Is Gorgos one of Andre's boys?? [03:49] <Commissar> Kelyeti is COS. [03:50] <trocar> someday, he may get what he deserves (not sure what that is just yet...I will get back to you..hehe) [03:50] <Commissar> Peggy is OPEN FOR HEARING it seems. I had written privately to Peter on some stuff, notably on the maltreatment of Jessica by people who themselves complain about Andre. [03:51] <Commissar> that was beautiful....if you set that up to CATCH IT, it was beautiful. [03:51] <Commissar> that's something I'd do..... [03:51] <trocar> I did it out of a morbid sense of curiosity, and I was repulsed at my findings [03:51] <Commissar> I mean regarding my email... [03:51] <Commissar> Good. Now you KNOW! [03:52] <Commissar> I wanted to see WHO amongst certain people (not you, obviously not Peter Ole or Vad) would take my "in the SB" email personally. AH HA!!! [03:52] <Commissar> lol. [03:52] <Commissar> I'm so fucking NKVD.... [03:52] <Commissar> :) [03:52] <trocar> I did not take your mail personally, I just responded for the sake of responding [03:53] <Commissar> I knew you wouldn't. But I had wondered who would: Ygraine? Jacqueline? Well... you saw it. [03:53] <trocar> I did indeed [03:53] <Commissar> So did Peggy - yet did you get the latest email??? I included Peggy's reply to my "in the SB." [03:53] <trocar> with Peggy's reply...NO, I did not...love to see it, when was it sent? [03:53] <Commissar> Did you get the ircle (mirc) for your Mac??? [03:54] <Commissar> I EMAILED IT about 1/2 hour ago. You should have it. IF NOT, I'll send it again! [03:54] <trocar> I did...I am ircle ready, as was Jessica... [03:54] <Commissar> Ok!! mirc is great! [03:54] <trocar> I will check shortly..I have not been thre for a bit [03:54] <Commissar> I emailed Peggy's reply with an attachment - my original email. To Ygraine second raging rant, I clipped all of it and just copy/pasted what Peggy had to say.
(NOTE: Peggy said "great email. very clear, etc." something like that."
[03:55] <trocar> yeah, I gotta take a looksie at that [03:58] <Commissar> It was short and very sweet... Session Close: Sun Apr 16 04:00:00 2000
Session Start: Mon Apr 24 02:24:44 2000 [02:25] <Commissar> Hey! Well, looks like gathering the evidence paid off. you DID get peggy's email? Priest Vad has done the preliminaries, the channel is the old one I had made #satanmuse [02:25] <Commissar> His channel, Peggy wants you and me as ops. I'm opped already. Did you get in touch with VAd?? [02:26] <trocar> which of Peggy's e-mails? [02:26] <Commissar> the one that says that the COS now has TWO channels! this one and #satanmuse. Priest Vad founder, with link to COS and his own web, and you and I are ops. [02:26] <trocar> oh no, I had heard no such info... [02:26] <Commissar> Attached at the bottom was a copy of the email Peggy wrote to the satannet people with rules for ops (about time) saying if ops can't be right, then don't be ops! [02:26] <Commissar> THAT one!! [02:26] <trocar> okay [02:27] <Commissar> What nick do you use as yourself? [02:27] <Commissar> Maginagy? [02:27] <trocar> nope, I am trocar [02:27] <Commissar> I also sent instructions on "how to" do everything needed to set it up, [02:27] <Commissar> So you want Vad to op you are Trocar? [02:28] <trocar> yes [02:28] <Commissar> ok. any other nick? [02:28] <trocar> not presently [02:28] <Commissar> She wants two Magistrates to be ops - and a Priest to have the room. [02:28] <Commissar> Troc, did you get instructions from me "how to" on chanserv mirc (ircle? works same?) [02:28] <trocar> well, we can give a shot [02:29] <Commissar> did you register and identify the nick and all that?? [02:29] <Commissar> It will certainly be a friendlier room!!! [02:29] <trocar> oh, I am registered, thank you [02:29] <Commissar> ok. [02:29] <Commissar> you have perform tasks in your ircle? [02:29] <Commissar> you can "identify" auto everytime you go ANYWHERE on irc! I have that function, wrote instructions on how to do all of this. [02:29] <trocar> I have ircle, but what 'tasks'? [02:30] <Commissar> under file, options, irc, perform. [02:30] <trocar> okaie dokie [02:30] <Commissar> I wrote real good details on how to do all of this - me being a beginner, I wrote out REAL easy. [02:30] <trocar> yes, you did [02:31] <Commissar> I'll tell you, when I'm determinted to learn how to do something, I fucking learn it. Programmed my bot too! [02:31] <trocar> sounds cool [02:31] <Commissar> Vad has his own, but I have no idea if he's gonna get shell account and eggdrop bot or not. It's not necessary on chanserv, but it's nice! [02:32] <trocar> I bet [02:32] <Commissar> So now COS has TWO channels. [02:32] <Commissar> Gorgos got all over Metadromos for going on the fcos channels. I TOLD HIM to go there and find out what he can. [02:32] <trocar> well, technically..from what I understand, the COS does not really 'endorse' any chats.. [02:32] <Commissar> We wouldn't make any kind of rules like that. If a person is REALLY being an asshole, I'd boot them off. [02:33] <Commissar> This is true. But Lestat led me to believe his chatroom was "it." [02:33] <Commissar> It's not nice to lie to me.... [02:33] <trocar> true [02:33] <Commissar> did you check it out? I'll email vad then and tell him to AOP "trocar" [02:34] <Commissar> But no one would know that you are a Magister if you go to Trocar?? [02:34] <trocar> I know... [02:34] <Commissar> Most ppl on here KNOW who you are!! [02:34] <Commissar> They told me. lol. I said "oh no, you are wrong, that's not Nagy..." [02:34] <trocar> just a few folks that I told [02:35] <Commissar> Yeah.... you told me but I REALLY did not tell anyone - including the ones who told me! lol. [02:35] <Commissar> I insisted that they had to be wrong... that's funny. [02:35] <trocar> I know..funny little chat 'chatter'...no one keeps secrets anymore [02:35] <Commissar> I do. [02:35] <Commissar> I also keep promises. [02:35] <Commissar> And deliver - FAST. [02:35] <trocar> I meant people, in general [02:36] <Commissar> Not the ones I know :)!! [02:36] <Commissar> It was easy to gather all that stuff to show Peggy (that is what you wanted, right??) - actually, I sent it to PETER. [02:37] <Commissar> I just asked people to go there and let it all log. [02:37] <Commissar> You said you couldn't get logs when you had java. [02:37] <trocar> I was under the assumption that they needed 'proof' of wrong doing [02:37] <Commissar> They got it. [02:37] <Commissar> BIG TIME. [02:37] <Commissar> Including some VERY illegal talking, about doing illegal shit. [02:38] <Commissar> Here: stole Kelyeti's nick. planning trojans, trying to bust into the EROLS servers?? PHEW! [02:38] <trocar> I have no idea what that computer speak means, but in souns ominous [02:39] <Commissar> And can you just see it if anything really bad happened? "OH, well, Peggy and Peter are MY BOSSES, and THEY TOLD ME to do it?? [02:39] <Commissar> They'd say that to cop out. [02:39] <Commissar> VERY VERY ILLEGAL SHIT. [02:39] <Commissar> Not only that, no one else compared notes - but I got their emails - TOO MANY new COS members, and those that fell foul of Andy, ended up with crashed computers OR their virus protection kept catching shit thrown at them. [02:39] <Commissar> TOO MANY. [02:40] <Commissar> So the fcos people are telling the truth. They don't have any hackers (I know that for a fact, found that out on my own but....can't say how ---ooooo, bad girl). [02:40] <Commissar> They think HP is telling Andy to do this. HELL NO Blanch would NEVER tell anyone to do that. [02:40] <trocar> I am sure the FCOS does some weird shit too.. [02:41] <trocar> I do not think Blanche talks to Andre at all [02:41] <Commissar> The half of them have either NO protection or shitty protection on their computers. NONE of them know how to hack or even catch it. [02:41] <Commissar> This shit happened to OUR PEOPLE, Jeff. And for sure proof: GORGOS took Kelyeti's nick and Kelyeti is COS. [02:41] <Commissar> Kelyeti is SATANIST too - promising. [02:42] <trocar> what would taking someones nick do for the 'stealer' of the nick? [02:42] <Commissar> Pose as that person. [02:43] <Commissar> PLUS, Kelyeti's computer crashed and he at least knows WHERE the virus came from (worm). Faust also CAUGHT a trojan and reported it to the cops. [02:43] <Commissar> Stealiing a nick, stealing a channel. What if someone took "Blanche Barton" as a nick? [02:43] <Commissar> Or your nick. [02:43] <Commissar> You are opped based usually on the NICK, not the IP. [02:43] <Commissar> I showed how to do it BOTH ways. [02:43] <trocar> my nicks have been stolen before...I just create new ones [02:44] <Commissar> If you identify, they can't be stolen. [02:44] <trocar> I am OP'd by my IP,not my nick
(Note: this is a very UNWISE thing to do: op by ip. BAN by IP is ok. But never op.)
[02:44] <Commissar> well... a hacker might be able to do it. Like with Kelyeti. [02:44] <Commissar> ok. [02:45] <Commissar> Stealing a nick - imagine Egan steals your nick and pm's someone in cos - they think it's you. [02:45] <Commissar> go from there. [02:45] <Commissar> Most people don't check everytime they talk to another person. [02:45] <trocar> he has stolen my nicks before... [02:45] <Commissar> Example: did you check to see if I'm really me? [02:45] <trocar> yep [02:46] <Commissar> Egan doesn't even have good virus protection on his computer. and NO trojan protection. [02:46] <Commissar> I know that ABSOLUTELY - . [02:47] <Commissar> Anyway, I gotta go, I'm tired as hell. Beach plus 3 hours sleep only. I have to proof read a LONG, LONG article. [02:47] <Commissar> I'll email Vad and tell him to auto op Trocar [02:47] <trocar> okay Session Close: Mon Apr 24 02:47:43 2000
Session Start: Mon Apr 24 02:50:53 2000 [02:51] <Commissar> Forgot to ask you. Jessica. She started to tell me back then in that pm that she had heard something "negative" about the person who uses the nick Mengele? [02:51] <Commissar> Anything I should know??? [02:51] <Commissar> I also LOST the log of them picking on her!! [02:51] <trocar> not that I know of [02:51] <Commissar> ok. I like the guy. He's not German btw.... [02:52] <trocar> I know, he is English I belive [02:52] <Commissar> No, he lives in England!! [02:52] <Commissar> he should come HERE. [02:53] <Commissar> HS Session Close: Mon Apr 24 02:53:48 2000
Session Start: Wed Apr 26 04:24:05 2000 [04:24] <Commissar> I told Vad to op you with the nick trocar. [04:24] <Commissar> he is SOOOO slow with getting back and well, when he's on there it's 6 am or something, and I'm in bed! [04:24] <trocar> that'll work [04:24] <Commissar> ok Session Close: Wed Apr 26 04:24:40 2000 end of log.
11. By this time I emailed ALL OF IT to Peggy AND TO JEFF NAGY! As promised! So then, a time period elapsed where I would imagine everyone READ the information I gathered.
12. Ygraine wrote me a flaming, emotionally hysterical email for doing what I said I'd do..... She is fuming pissed at me because SHE "betrayed a trust with Peggy." HUH? Whatever. The "real Ygraine" comes forth (which I had seen when she was into her 'KARL IS FAT' bullshit). She comes off with how Peggy told her all this bad shit about me. Oh really? I emailed Peggy and asked her. See: no one usually does things like that. It's not in their christian culture to do that. Gossipy little drama queens. Want to see my FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE? DRIVER'S LISENCE? SOCIAL SECURITY CARD?? HOW ABOUT A CHECK? Does someone DOUBT what I said "we would do" to Doug Weaks and some others when I promised it and then DELIVERED IT? Well, no, Peggy has no idea what I'm talking about. OH, but Ygraine would have it that PEGGY SAID ALL THIS SHIT about me to her? Like I would even CARE? Peyton Place - a fucking soap opera. Herd SHIT - PURE HERD. He said, she said. NEVER a conversation about THINGS of interest aside from personal bullshit. Christian tea club. Yup, I never knew these people, NEVER WANTED TO KNOW THEM (yawn to the max) and would NOT want to know them!
13. Liz Dictator shows up - has been showing up and TRASHING everyone she gets near. She trashed Nate Perry and people Nate mentioned that I can't remember (don't know them); she has tried her hardest to subject everyone to an INTERROGATION the pure "Red of TASC" style. SAME style - so much so that I was convinced she WAS Red at first. Their brains work the same identical way. I witnessed Liz Dictator 3 times being a total bitch - insinuating that I am a dictator (lol?) and inferring that everyone else in the chat room was a doormat obeying my orders. (How? At gun point?) The major problem is that EVERYONE seems to think that Liz Dictator is a COS official, or that she is Jeff Nagy or his wife in disguise!!! Now why ever would anyone get that idea? SO MANY PEOPLE were so convinced of this! Amazing! I emailed Rachalle at Nagy's email and informed her "Liz Dictator is leading people to believe she is you or your husband." Rachelle asked why they'd think this. Easy - the "whois" on mirc for one, and Liz herself HINTING IT strongly - bragging about "who she knows" and all that kind of irrelevant shit. DUH. (I saw 2 rooms in the Black House and met Doc 3 times! Well! I saw TEN rooms and met him 20 times! You know; that kind of shit goes on too: idolization cult of personality vomit having NOTHING to do with satanism. But when they TURN ON the CoS, then the dirty laundry gets plastered all over the world for all to see as if anyone should care about the personal affairs of the LaVey family..... they shouldn't care.)
14. Now view the log of the following to show why Liz Dictator is REALLY being a total bitch. It can be boiled down using reductio ad absurdum in this manner: "BOO HOO, no one is saying HEIL to anyone anymore; BOO HOO, no one is saying HEIL Satan. They say Hail Satan or SLAVA Satan. Or they say good nite or something else. Boo Hoo, these people have nicks like Yezhov and Commissar. Oh my god, it's a BOLSHEVIK TAKEOVER." The fact is that NO ONE talked politics on the chat room at any time aside from the FEW times I had to educate some idiot and explain that Hitler was not a dictator, National Socialism is the opposite of fascism, and other such OBVIOUS things. Besides that - what's it to her IF THEY WANTED to talk politics? She's a real CHRISTIAN REGULATOR; wants to tell people what to LAUGH about (she destroyed the laughter; I witnessed that); she wants to tell people what to feel and what to think? Good Christian bitch.
Here is the log.
Session Start: Sun May 28 03:45:02 2000 [03:45] Session Ident: LizDictator (LizD@AC981B9C.ipt.aol.com) [03:45] <LizDictator> I find it amazing when folks do not know who you are in here, how terrible they treat you...and these same folks are the ones who rant and rave about that very same treatment they supposedly recevied from Rev. S. Terribly hypocritical on their part. If they only knew... [03:50] <LizDictator> if I told you who I was, how far beyond your own eyes would it go? [03:50] <LizDictator> would you be obligated to pass on the info to Miss Janstang? or anyone else? [03:51] <IronWill> well youve made some very storng accusations of an official no less and just for the record the bot records eveything in the room and can be passed on to who every needs it [03:51] <LizDictator> does the bot see pm's? [03:51] <LizDictator> and yes I have made accusations [03:52] <LizDictator> and who says I am not an official myself? [03:54] <LizDictator> you must be in pm's with a lot of folks, I will leave you be [03:55] <LizDictator> okay Dark Mist, Secret Agent Man...get back to me whenever you get a moment [03:55] <IronWill> no i was looking over a site [03:55] <LizDictator> no problem [03:57] <IronWill> and if your an official i would think it wouldnt be good for other people poking around to see this such a thing and i would think that you two would find a way to deal with the problem at hand it does look good on the room and me being an op ive been givin a job of at least keeping some peace the most as possible [03:57] <LizDictator> no problem, peace is at hand [03:57] <IronWill> no the bot doesnt see pms [03:58] <LizDictator> I just do not dig the communist vibe [03:58] <IronWill> well all politicval views are welcome here myself im a facist but i dont attck her for it [03:59] <LizDictator> and NKVD has hurt many a good people in here, I have that proof but in the overall scope of the COS it is of little importance [03:59] <IronWill> nor do i attacka liberal or a repulican [03:59] <IronWill> politics is like religious views its all preference anyway [04:00] <LizDictator> my problem is that I got along with folks in here swell until they adopted her communism dealy...and I am a dyed in the wool fascist, just like my buddy Rev Anthony, no huge secret [04:00] <IronWill> so some of us have gotten into a facism and strong over the weak rant its just pysco drama nothing more [04:01] <LizDictator> agreed [04:01] <IronWill> so you know rev _Anthony hum [04:01] <LizDictator> and I apologize for bashing her on your watch. Sice you are in no official position it puts you in a tough place and for that I apologize [04:02] <LizDictator> and yes, I know KS [04:02] <IronWill> well the online reps are there to deal with such things [04:02] <LizDictator> yep [04:02] <IronWill> i have no authority over officials [04:02] <LizDictator> I know, that is why I aplogize :) [04:03] <LizDictator> anyhow, good evening...I must get some sleep, take care... [04:03] <IronWill> but you need to verifie who you are to Rev_Ventrue at least so the ops now who is who we have to keep the peace and theres no way to do that when someon says there someone and know way to proove it [04:04] <IronWill> too many people come here and fake titles and thats not allowed [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill is THSpro21@2Cust80.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net * GodDamnDevil [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill on @#satannet [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill using liberty.nj.us.dal.net New York Metro Area - www.nac.net [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill has identified for this nick [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill has been idle 29secs, signed on Sat May 27 16:16:24 [04:04] <IronWill> IronWill End of /WHOIS list. [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill is THSpro21@2Cust80.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net * GodDamnDevil [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill on @#satannet [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill using liberty.nj.us.dal.net New York Metro Area - www.nac.net [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill has identified for this nick [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill has been idle 29secs, signed on Sat May 27 16:16:24 [04:10] <IronWill> IronWill End of /WHOIS list. [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill is THSpro21@2Cust80.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net * GodDamnDevil [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill on @#satannet [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill using liberty.nj.us.dal.net New York Metro Area - www.nac.net [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill has identified for this nick [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill has been idle 29secs, signed on Sat May 27 16:16:24 [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill End of /WHOIS list. [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill is THSpro21@2Cust80.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net * GodDamnDevil [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill on @#satannet [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill using liberty.nj.us.dal.net New York Metro Area - www.nac.net [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill has identified for this nick [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill has been idle 29secs, signed on Sat May 27 16:16:24 [04:12] <IronWill> IronWill End of /WHOIS list. [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill is THSpro21@2Cust80.tnt5.topeka.ks.da.uu.net * GodDamnDevil [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill on @#satannet [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill using liberty.nj.us.dal.net New York Metro Area - www.nac.net [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill has identified for this nick [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill has been idle 29secs, signed on Sat May 27 16:16:24 [04:13] <IronWill> IronWill End of /WHOIS list. Session Close: Sun May 28 05:18:08 2000
<tSNBot> SEEN-quit: trocar(Snak@usr59-dialup230.mix1.Sacramento.cw.net) left channel 23 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your misery!). <tSNBot> SEEN-quit: BabyE(Snak@126.96.36.199) left channel 23 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your misery!). <tSNBot> SEEN-quit: LizDictator(LizD@AC981B9C.ipt.aol.com) left channel 11 hours, 36 minutes ago with a reason (Quit: Laughing at your misery!). <tSNBot> SEEN-part: Alice_Looking(C_Cat@cogeco-138-95.cgocable.net) left channel 20 days, 12 hours, 30 minutes ago.
Tani, I swear I have seen trocar at AC981B9C. My IP program identified it. Just can't find it in my logs.
NOTE: no one treated her badly because they "didn't know who she was." They treated her badly only AFTER she was a TOTAL BITCH to them. She is referring here to Jessica Heather who WAS treated llike shit and "interrogated" by John Davis, Jacqueline and Brainiard whoever that is. Of course as soon as Nagy showed up (as Trocar, supposedly no one knows that's Nagy) and complained about it, the MOO MOOING started big time as the Alien Elite marched backwards with their hands up. PATHETIC.
15. Now view the letter I wrote TO LIZ based on the SHIT she said to me in the chat room. And please note that this email was TO LIZ DICTATOR - with a COPY TO all the others! Quite a few others.
To Liz Dictator - cc to Jeff and Rachelle Nagy, Peggy Nadramia, Peter Gilmore, Rev. Vad and also Rev. Ventrue since he's supposed to "know" you (Liz Dictator). And to Iron Will who saw you had gone too far.
This is TO Liz Dictator:
You pretended to ask me questions - with the intent to make either insult or accusation - and that from the position of such SUPREME ignorance that it woud be laughable if the situation were just that. People think you are either Rachelle or Jeff Nagy. You have led MANY to think this by statements you apparently made to them and by your "leave" signature when you get off chat. You have furthermore started trouble with almost EVERYONE on there and yes, they hate you for it. But they ALSO think you are some "official" in the COS.
I'm am usually quite a friendly person, I'm open and up front - VERY MUCH so. So I'll answer your non-questions with the knowledge that they'll fall on ears as deaf as the eyes were blind. Yes, I could easily scan my Magistrate certificate but EVERYONE KNOWS ME duh.
1. Aquino. The accusation that I support Aquino has got to be the biggest joke anyone could possibly tell. But you were not making a joke. You were maliciously slandering ONE of the MAIN PEOPLE who literally TOOK ON the TOS and won. One view of "Preface" to Dark Force and Klippoth doctrines on Rev. Vad's website would tell you the story. The reading, then, of "Why the TOS is not Satanic" most of which came from Mag Marsh and I, would explain it all.
Everyone was afraid of Aquino's lawyers and the law suits he filed. Everyone was afraid of his military intelligence position (which he had at the time). Jim had gotten into a bit of trouble regarding Aquino's connections. The man definitely had clout and his family (mother is Lilian Ford) had connections.
We took him on. We dismantled his lies. We proved he not only did NOT have a schizm with all the people he claimed - but that he was TRYING TO DO SERIOUS DAMAGE to the Cos as early as 1972. NO ONE in the COS had this documentation tho Peter and Doc both knew "something strange" happened at that time (they knew it on hindsight). 1972. Where were you Liz? Were you even BORN in 1972? Neither Peter nor Peggy nor Jeff nor Rachelle can even say that. Hell, even HP Blanche wasn't there. WE SAW.
We did not rely on what Blanche said, what Doc said, what Mikey said, so long AFTER the facts and events, to back anything up. We also never relied on what first hand sources said. We did what archeologists do when they do a standard exegesis and applied historicity, with regards to the culture at large, to it. THAT is the way to do it. Nothing else works. We read the ENTIRE TEXTS of both groups and dismantled it from there. THAT has worth. Hearsay means nothing - it's just one person's opinion of what happened and of course they'll disagree with each other. Duh. Our method pushes aside what Doc, Blanche, Mikey or others had to say. It shows TEXTUAL reality which is how archeological exegesis on the same types of things are done. That was the up front and honest open stuff we did.
I got a hold of a military intelligence paper Mikey wrote on the applications of the neutron bomb and had colleagues distribute it. When the Feds asked where I got this - I told them: MIKEY. All trails did lead directly to him! There goes his clout. I have it too. WE have it. Don't believe me - ask Pete or Peg. I also put Lilith's medical history (the real thing) up for public view. I didn't use slander or mealy mouthed bullshit. I used TRUTH and subterfuge, espionage and sabotage. I used what I KNOW HOW to use.
NOTE: as a matter of fact, I did no such thing. Peter Gilmore said she had lupus and some of the kids flaming back then called her by Gilmore's name: "Lupus Lilith."
Did I get sued? No. Did Mikey DO anything? No. Uh, well yes. This may be purely a coincidence, but MIKEY RESIGNED as Head of the TOS. I like the timing. Every once in awhile he pops up, he is compelled to. But it's nothing like before when the entire TOS was an army of enemies out to destroy the COS. Not anymore.
So why is Aquino "not a problem" for me? I assume you TAKE ISSUE with that statement I made while you were arrogantly being ignorant about "Doc talks to the Devil" being a TOS assertion. Figure it out Liz. I said he is not a problem I have no problem with him. This is 100% true. He would not DARE do anything or try it. So he's not a problem. there were too many people wholly unknown to both TOS and COS that came out of nowhere and ATTACKED him so badly that many TOSsers gave up and just STOPPED. He has not really BOTHERED the COS since that time. The TOS as a whole org has definitely gone their own way since then.
WE DID THAT. This is not "if I say so" Liz. Don't you dare try to belittle these efforts and deeds - not when the top people in the COS at the time THANKED US as much as they did. This is historical fact that anyone there at the time SAW. In fact, it was PEGGY who posted that for me herself - she KNOWS what affects it had. She even RETYPED some of it before I had the ability to put it on a convertable disc. That was a lot of work. And Peter - he said it with Phil's Evolution Christians and Setians paper: Phil Marsh FINALLY DID IT. Utterly exposed Aquino as the liar and pseudo "scientist" he was. In it were quotes from TOS documents - go read it. You won't. You have NO interest in KNOWING anything.
2. Valentine: I do not know the man. What I do know about him is what Peter Gilmore told me and what I saw on a tape of him on television. Nothing more. I have no idea what he believes or thinks. I know NOTHING about him. Except: on TV he said he believes in an entity called Satan. Oh, then he SHOULD join the Temple of Set. How dare you accuse me of being his sympathizer. I don't know the man. I am TO DATE the ONLY person (ask Peggy, she said it herself) that ever went in public and defended her and Peter against what Valentine had said. They were kind to him, never said a foul thing about the man. And he turned on them like that? I said he was cute on the tv. That doesn't change. He is cute on the tv. PERIOD. I don't change my opinions to follow ANY party line or PC shit. I don't care if it's SC either (Satanically Correct) what rubbish. phphph.
3. You know it all so well, you would not even bother to read COS versus TOS. In there it is clear: the MAIN bone of contention was that Aquino and the Tos insisted that Doc bellieved in a literal devil - an entity or demonic being of sorts. Doc NEVER believed in such a TOOTH FAIRY. Doc is not crazy. Doc was NEVER crazy and he despised RELIGION. You didn't even know that Aquino and YOURSELF agree on this bullshit.
4. You ask me 3 times why I write articles "about Communism." I don't. You are too much of a fucking idiot to realize it. Your "only possible reason" for liking anything or doing anything is because it's unpopular or because it's kosher ala SB. Yup, like a good little christian no-mind with no desires and no self to like what you damned well please to like and say FUCK IT to anyone who has a problem with it.
I shall explain. Both Mag Marsh (Phil) and I have written articles on SPECIFIC PEOPLE. These people were quite big in the Soviet Communist system. They were "Red Comrades" of that time period: Stalin. Not later. Later there was no Communism there because state capitalism is not communism - it's capitalism. There is not one Marxist or Communist alive today that would DARE write about these people - they'd rather FORGET these people. What are we both writing? Stuff in favor? Stuff against? You don't even know. We are writing THE UNDEFILED TRUTH about these people and nothing less - nothing more. J. E. Hoover is also mentioned in there - he is also a hated and defamed person from the American FBI. Why? Why do they lie about Hoover? Of course of course, they just HAVE to call him a sex pervert - that's so typical. We told the truth about him too - and proved that he most certainly DID believe in Yezhov's hated thesis. But you don't know what I'm talking about: you didn't even READ the article; you just jumped to a conclusion and used that false conclusion to try to stomp on literary efforts that you have YET to show the ability to put forth yourself. Resentment eh?
WHY did you NOT ask me why I wrote a novel that's to be published: "Glimpses of Other Nations" a Cthulhu Mythos novel? Why did you NOT ask me why I wrote about 500 other published mythos tales - only the most recent ones published using my own name. Why did you NOT ask me why I wrote Satanic articles that STILL sell - articles that were all first published by the Church of Satan in their ONLY Satanic magazine: The Black Flame. Why did you NOT ask me about that? You didn't. You didn't want to know any of it. You wanted to START SHIT with me. Why did you NOT ask me why I wrote music? Why did you NOT ask me why I watch Star Trek or why I like coffee or why I do or like anything? It's NONE of your fucking little JUDGEMENTAL business. I do not JUSTIFY what I want, like, or do; or what I DO NOT want, DO NOT like and DO NOT DO - to ANYONE. NOT TO ANYONE. STOP.
Your sole reason for "liking something" would be that it's unpopular - you said this. Not even your idea: guess Doc does the thinking FOR you, eh? You have no mind, no feelings. I like the Ava Maria. I like Oh Holy Night. I like whatever the fuck I like and I don't have to JUSTIFY it to some fucking twit that wants to JUDGE it in Christian-Satan style - same thing.
Satanism is NOT a religion per se. There is no god, no afterlife, no things in it that are elements of FAITH at all and that is a technical, theological definition that has NOTHING TO DO with "politics or tax status." For political purposes, Satanism AND ATHEISM are called "relilgions" on statistical forms and in hospitals. Oh, you didn't know that? How many times does Blanche have to reiterate the hard atheist line? How many times does she have to reiterate the SYMBOLISM.
In Chritianity and Islam - Jesus and Mohammed are NOT SYMBOLS. In Satanism Satan is NOTHING BUT a symbol. How many times must this be repeated?
Nazi fetishism, that stuff. Peggy had to write an article on the Nazi fetish that is creeping into the COS. She excuses it by saying that the types that get into it think it's evil....they are still stuck in that stage (adolescent if you ask me). I will tell you that Doc BOOTED OUT many for the same thing - he hated them and knew exactly what they were. Are they unpopular? Hardly - Hollywood really set the ball rolling with the sexy movie Holocaust - where the SS were cute and sexy and the Jews looked like non-entities. Jews produced it no less. Christian Socialism and that is what National SOCIALISM was if you know anything about politics, was HAILED BY THE POPE as was Hitler. Oh, but the nation that had Communism was not only called the ANTI CHRIST by the same Christian authorities and the Nazis both, but the Commies put the Satanic Bible in their Museum of Atheism - a place of HONOR. I can't say that ANY Christian country has ever done that - nor will they. But that is NOT a reason to like Communism. Nazis are so popular that 30,000 little darling Nazis are in the Idenity Christian movement right now. They are nothing but a pathetic reaction to "the big bad Negroes" that have destroyed the cities. Who let them destroy the cities? Nazis hated Jews because they regarded Jews as a SATANIC, DEMONIC race - RACE - not religion. Goldhagen has proven this now using the undefiled truth and hard proof. Why did they think Jews were satanic and demonic? Because Jews were SO SO SMART, they just got ahead at ANYTHING they did, they are a TINY minority yet they are so influential in EVERYTHING; they rise up and literally CONTROL EVERYTHING. That was the Nazi reason to hate them. They couldn't compete. Let's have Affirmative Action then: FOR ARYANS. Speaking of which, why WOULD so many Jews with clout (a minority of Jews as a matter of fact) promote the Negroes and set them against this nation like ravening dogs to DESTROY EVERYTHING, to WRECK formerly wonderful social programs that were there for WORKING people? Because the Jews HATED the Christians MORE THAN YOU DO. And I got that STRAIGHT from the mouth of a former OFFICER of the ADL - Jeff Gerber. Now, there was never any threat of a domino event with Communism since it's merely a working people's movement, not a rich overlord with Papal connections thing. What about ISLAMIC domino effects which is what we are now facing? That's very real - and it has now made it all the way to the Phillipines: they LOVE the TALIBAN!! Do you even know what the Taliban is? If not: FIND OUT.
As for what I wrote about, what Phil also wrote more about that you pretended to be curious about (you were NOT curious at all). You know NOTHING of that place over there, tho there is an article that would inform you of an ALIEN world, a world you can't conceive of. You know nothing of what Communism was THERE in the literal land of ice and darkness - for that is the ONLY place it ever existed and it lasted for about 15 years before a war destroyed everything these people built with their own hands. Nonetheless, smashed to the ground, they managed to rise up using nothing but their WILL TO POWER and become a SUPERPOWER - and beat the USA into space. Those are my people that did that. SATANIC RACE - oh yes. Who do you think the Satanic race is? The Aryans phphphph lol? Hardly. Race shows in the face: DOC LOOKED LIKE ONE OF US. Serpents Versus Adamites all over again.
Social program: there are NO social programs in the USA.
There are ANTI-social programs - they are designed no longer to reward hard working American citizens with decent wages, pension, a quality life, disability if needed, good public education for all, quality houses and all that GOOD STUFF that Doc and I both know so well because we LIVED THRU IT - old timers. No. These anti-social programs are here now to reward bitches that can't use cheap birth control, who litter the planet with bastards one after the other. They are here to force us working people to be their guardians. They are designed to reward fathers of those children who never paid a CENT of child support, ergo we, you, all of you, are their COLLECTIVE GUARDIANS but you have NO say about what becomes of them. You PAY to raise them to be what? Productive citizens? Ha. To be gang banger and enemies of the people, to be DESTROYERS of just ONE MORE formerly nice place. They are designed to let in illegals to work for BIG CORPORATIONS really cheap (tho you are also paying their salary when they get welfare and housing and foodstamps to supplement that cheap wage). They are designed for mega corporations who do poorly abroad because what they have to sell is SHIT and no one abroad wants it, and then who whine and ALSO GET WELFARE (amazing fact!). One corporation gets more welfare than all the broodmares combined. Anti-social programs are designed to go against ANY honest working person that desires only what he or she needs to have a quality life - yes, like Leave It To Beaver, the people on that show. Everyone used to identify with it. But then Doc and I LIVED that good life here once upon a time when social programs WERE social. Now they are anti social.
Enough of that. 3 times there was laughter and fun on the chat room. Three times I personally saw you come in there and SHIT on the fun, POISON the atmosphere of the room. You say nothing interesting to anyone there - so no one responds - or you blather about and people are not at their computers and so they don't see you: then you ACCUSE THEM of being ordered by me not to talk to you? Oh, of course, BLAME TANI. They couldn't possibly find you to be a royal bore with nothing to say that they are interested in hearing. You say NOTHING of worth - so you compesate for that by shit-disturbing a stranger from Italy that asks a SIMPLE FUCKING QUESTION: "Where are other Satanists in Italy." You have to pull your "holier than thou" act and say "do you need others to be a satanist."
DID THE FUCKING ITALIAN SAY THAT? NO. HE DID NOT SAY THAT. YOU said it as if to accuse him.
Whether or not Rev. Ventrue "knows you" is irrelevant to me. He loves the "hierarchy" when they let him get away with things. But when he lies to one and gets called on it he no longer loves ALL the hierarchy. He LOVES laizzes faire (I'm assuming) but HATES the competition? People who like laizzes faire are so benighted that they can't factor in mass production: which effectively destroys lazzes faire and LEADS TO trade unionism. Which in turn gets corrupt from kin-based Mafias and LEADS TO lazzes faire again only it's international: when BIG CORPORATIONS trash American workers and hire Mexican illegals for $1 an hour, or move to China where they don't have to make it SAFE for workers, to hire Chinese at 25 cents an hour; they are only practicing LAZZES FAIRE. And there is NOT ONE American who could begin to COMPETE with this. These non-whites work faster and better than Americans. Simple as that. They can afford to work for low wages because the COST OF LIVING in their countries is VERY LOW. Uh, it used to be low here too back then and the wages went far - but you weren't born yet - none of you were. Ah ha!
You claim you are COS? Fine. I don't care about that either. Don't you EVER make false accusations about me or mine again - OR bring up a subject you know NOTHING about and accuse me of "writing about it" while PRETENDING to be asking a question (when you are NOT interested) in order to start an argument. I take NO JOY in arguments or conflicts. I HATE that xtoid pent-up akathartic shit. You need not ask me a thing even if you WERE interested: because you are too fucking STUPID to read an essay and realize what everyone realized about it: any Communist that ever read that would get PISSED OFF - but no matter. You'd not have to ask me a single thing. I have NO DESIRE to answer phony questions. But I was VERY willing to answer the Italian with his ONE SIMPLE question. What's in there is the TRUTH. You'd have NO reason to "discuss it with the author."
Truth sets some of us free, we love it. We hate the little tea club hush hush and the bullshit. As to my showing personal stuff: what personal stuff? EH? What personal? What's personal about stories that everyone already knows? Peggy Nadramia asked me to get proof for something that was bothering new COS members and potential members - and even some that had been with COS a long time. I told Jeff Nagy this. He agreed with doing it. EVERYONE KNEW I'd show her, or Peter - AND JEFF whatever evidence I got. I was objective in one way: I didn't know ANY of the people involved. I had MANY helpers - after all, I was not online that much and could not gather all that myself. Repeat, I had MANY HELPERS. When asked to do something, however, Yes, I am thorough. You say like Himmler? DO NOT equate me with a person I'd have MURDERED MYSELF had I got the chance. Like J.Edger Hoover: oh yes. After all - I OUGHT to know how to do that kind of thing: I did it for 20 years. Retired at 36.
Who got into that room shortly after you left and then returned? Red from the TASC. He tried to get on there. He's another one. You are identical to him in the way you pretend to ask a question - attempt to perform an interrogation like a christian inquisitor and then twist words and assume all sorts of ego-projected SHIT.
Now you know. You didn't really want to know. But now you know. Stay the hell out of my face. I DO NOT CARE if you are an official. BACK OFF.
16. Now see Jeff Nagy's utterly irrational and nasty reply to my letter to LIZ - and my reply back to him, I'll try to keep the >> readable if not just state who is saying what. He responds to me quoting from the letter you just saw above. I, in turn, respond to him.
I had to send this to others since Nagy said NOT to email him. :)
Return-Path: <email@example.com> Content-Length: 38944 X-Sent-Mail: off X-Sender-Ip: 188.8.131.52
Ok, Peggy or Peter, please email forward this to Jeff Nagy. Thank you very much! Perhaps Rev. Schlesinger SHOULD see it too.... after all. I don't know him, was gathering the info for you all based on complaints. Not knowing any of the people makes me objective.
To Jeff Nagy: Since you insist I do not email you, a reckless statement of paranoia since you only received a CC of the damned email to LIZ (who is impersonating you and your wife), I'll have Peggy email it. And if she doesn't email it, perhaps Ole or some other can email it. You misread. The letter was addressed TO Liz. You got a COPY OF IT as did others.
On Mon, 29 May 2000 00:53:23 jeffrey nagy wrote:
Due to the tone of your letter and the accusations that I may/must be the person metioned I would respecfully ask you to leave me be.
Odd, nowhere in there does it even slightly imply that it is you or Rachelle. Nowhere. You do NOT want to know that someone is pretending to be you? Leading others to think it's you? Strange. How cliche: "due to the tone of your letter" and please spare me the tripe later about typos. Your typos are beauts too.
Nagy: Your letter is pompous, arrogant, accusatory, anti-satanic, full of misspellings and bad grammar, foul language, and a HUGE waste of time.
My letter is to the god damned point. It answers Liz bluntly. It is satanic as hell, the grammar is fine and tish tish on the fucking god dammit to hell bitching curse words.
Nagy: If you would keep your petty agendas to yourself I would appreciate it. Your muck-raking attempts are deplorable at best to hurl at another Magister. You are vile, ill-tempered, and disruptive.
I am neither ill tempered nor disruptive. But I am definitely such to enemies like Red and others - or shit-disturbers that USE YOUR ACCOUNT, like Liz. Yes, whoever this is, she was using YOUR account. Please, don't try to deny it. I have it. You don't know she is doing this? Now you know. > Nagy >I will state this for the record: I have no idea who Liz Dictator is and >could not care less, as I do not frequent said chatrooms anymore due to the >childish antics of folks who would waste an awful lot of my precious time. >I will respond to a few of your accusations however, and wish never to be >pestered by you again.
I did not pester you - I told you of a person definitely impersonating you - and oh yes, she impersonated you even in various pm's. When I say I'll find out things, I mean it.
From Prev email to Liz: People think you are either Rachelle or Jeff Nagy.
Nagy: Well, it is not us, so stop with the accusations, okay.
Why are you being paranoid and defensive. You don't wish to know someone is impersonating you or your wife?
From Prev email to Liz: You have led MANY to think this by statements you apparently made to them and by your "leave" signature when you get off chat.
Nagy: Who cares what a nitwit leads people to believe?
From Prev email to Liz: You have furthermore started trouble with almost EVERYONE on there and yes, they hate you for it. But they ALSO think you are some "official" in the COS.
Nagy: I assure you no official would behave that way...or I thought until I received this letter.
You know damned well some officials behave that way. In fact, you were in favor of me getting information to give Peter on one such official. Remember? You changed your mind?
From Prev email to Liz: The reading, then, of "Why the TOS is not Satanic" most of which came from Mag Marsh and I, would explain it all.
Nagy: I already know how unsatanic they are why rehash the worthless?
From Prev email to Liz: Everyone was afraid of Aquino's lawyers and the law suits he filed. Everyone was afraid of his military intelligence position (which he had at the time).
Nagy: I know of noone who was/is afraid...Ever.
Peter Gilmore to me: "He is sue crazy." And so forth. Oh yes they were. And he did sue people and at best, tie them up in courts.
From Prev email to Liz: NO ONE in the COS had this documentation tho Peter and Doc both knew "something strange" happened at that time (they knew it on hindsight). 1972. Where were you Liz? Were you even BORN in 1972?
Nagy: Is your being 'in the know' have something to do with age?
From Prev email to Liz: Neither Peter nor Peggy nor Jeff nor Rachelle can even say that. Hell, even HP Blanche wasn't there. WE SAW.
Nagy: Sounds awfully belittling.
You are being defensive. It is true. Not belittling. I'm older than HP Blanche and all of you. So is everying that was around back then.
From Prev email to Liz: We did not rely on what Blanche said, what Doc said,
Nagy: Were their words not good enough for you?
What was good enough for me was irrelevant. You lack objectivity. It had to be good enough for "the world" that was convinced that TOS was telling the truth and costing the COS a lot.
From Prev email to Liz:: Our method pushes aside what Doc, Blanche, Mikey or others had to say.
Nagy: Once again it sounds like you are belittling a man I care deeply about, Dr. LaVey.
Dr. Lavey APPRECIATED it. Very much so.
From Prev email to Liz: I got a hold of a military intelligence paper Mikey wrote on the applications of the neutron bomb and had colleagues distribute it.
(NOTE: As a matter of fact I did no such thing. A LAWYER DID IT. I did distribute the copy I got, however. I think Peggy posted it! I just want to see where this information ends up.)
Nagy: Does the term ILLEGAL mean anything to you? And if you did this covertly why would you CC it to a bunch of folks?
Because the "world" got to see it. It is no longer covert.
From Prev email to Liz: When the Feds asked where I got this - I told them: MIKEY.
Nagy: So, it is okay for you to lie, just noone else? Are you bipolar?
You are being a fool here. Why? Mikey did write it. Ergo trails led to him. He really did write it. Illegal? Uh, no it wasn't. You failed to understand.
From Prev email to Liz: A. I also put Lilith's medical history (the real thing) up for public view.
Nagy What on earth would her medical conditions have to do with anything, and why are you so obsessed with them? Get over it.
Because she did similar nasty tricks to COSsers. I was never in it TO get over it. I did Peter and Peggy and Doc a FAVOR, we all did. Simple as that. It was easy. You aren't understanding: TOS was never "my" problem.
From Prev email to Liz: "Doc talks to the Devil" being a TOS assertion.
Nagy: What are you talking about? And what difference does it make if one does believe in the Prince of Darkness in one form or another?
Why are you behaving as if this is written TO YOU? I wrote it to LIZ - and she definitely knows what I'm talking about, after all, she said it.
From Prev email to Liz: This is historical fact that anyone there at the time SAW. In fact, it was PEGGY who posted that for me herself - she KNOWS what affects it had. She even RETYPED
Nagy: I am sure she had to due to grammatical errors...
Typos. What a petty thing to balk at. Typos.
From Prev email to Liz: And Peter - he said it with Phil's Evolution Christians and Setians paper: Phil Marsh FINALLY DID IT.
Nagy: You make it sound like you two are the only folks who have ever written anything of value in the COS...how belittling.
Your interpretation: NOT my intention. Why do you choose to interpret it that way? Do you even realize you are interpreting FACTS that way?
From Prev email to Liz: Doc NEVER believed in such a TOOTH FAIRY. Doc is not crazy.
Nagy: Belief and USE are two different concepts that I will not bother indulging you.
(Note: he's too stupid to explain it and lacks technical knowledge TO explain it: I already did explain it: TO LIZ).
From Prev email to Liz: Doc was NEVER crazy and he despised RELIGION.
Nagy: So much he formed his own? He despised ORGANIZED religion, he did understand the benefit of religion and mans need for the supernormal..so what? Semantics.
From Prev email to Liz: 4. You ask me 3 times why I write articles "about Communism." I don't. Yup, like a good little christian no-mind with no desires and no self to like what you damned well please to like and say FUCK IT to anyone who has a problem with it.
Nagy: If you say fuck it (you like that word) with folks who have a problem with it, why are you following it up with this explaination below?
I am explaining it to Liz, who has thus far asked me the question three times. I tend to answer questions - I have no problem with that. I have a problem only when the person is not "really" asking a question at all. Why are you behaving as if YOU asked it? LIZ asked it. Are you a multiple personality now?
From Prev email to Liz: I shall explain. It's NONE of your fucking little JUDGEMENTAL business. I do not JUSTIFY what I want, like, or do; or what I DO NOT want, DO NOT like and DO NOT DO - to ANYONE. NOT TO ANYONE. STOP.
Nagy: Could you be more redundant to a person you seem to think so little of? If you hate this chick so much, why this huge dissertation?
Hate? Too strong.
From Prev email to Liz: Satanism is NOT a religion per se.
Nagy: If you say so. But why belittle people who use it as their religion...your way is not the only way.
My way? Godism in the cos? Doc and Aquino SPLIT UP over that issue - and that is indeed the issue that split them up - not selling degrees.
From Prev email to Liz: For political purposes, Satanism AND ATHEISM are called "relilgions" on statistical forms and in hospitals.
Nagy: So what?
(Note: the statement of a true ignoramus).
I'm telling Liz. Why are you behaving as if I'm telling you?
From Prev email to Liz: How many times does Blanche have to reiterate the hard atheist line?
Nagy: I must have missed that line, or you missed the idea or read far too much into it. Chill out. Take a breath.
From Prev email to Liz: How many times does she have to reiterate the SYMBOLISM. Nazi fetishism, that stuff. Peggy had to write an article on the Nazi fetish that is creeping into the COS. She excuses it by saying that the types that get into it think it's evil....they are still stuck in that stage (adolescent if you ask me).
Nagy: I happen to think facsism is a good thing..no biggie. I also like kitty cats, Jayne Mansfield memerobilia, two toned wing tipped shoes, hand painted girlie ties and my new DVD player. Who cares?
Liz cares. Liz cares so much that she has a little faction in the COS that wants to make the whole org fascist. And she really has a problem with anyone who thinks it's tired, or who has FUN with other things that are not fascist. Why are you -???- Why are you writing back as if this is to you? Your name was in the cc.
From Prev email to Liz: I will tell you that Doc BOOTED OUT many for the same thing
Nagy: No...he did not.
Ho ho, yes he did. Before your time.
He booted out some fascist folks who happened to be assholes, but it had nothing to do with their fascist inclinations..sorry.
From Prev email to Liz: if you know anything about politics, was HAILED BY THE POPE as was Hitler.
From Prev email to Liz: Oh, but the nation that had Communism was not only called the ANTI CHRIST by the same Christian authorities and the Nazis both, but the Commies put the Satanic Bible in their Museum of Atheism - a place of HONOR.
Nagy:: I thought you did not write about nor care about commies? The truth comes out...your slip is showing...hide that damn thing...
I told LIZ what I wrote about. It is on a website for anyone to see. I told the truth. And?
From Prev email to Liz: Nazis are so popular that 30,000 little darling Nazis are in the Idenity Christian movement right now.
Nagy: And what do they have to do with Hitler...nada...or real fascism...nada...a moot point.
Nagy: Do you care? Obviously yes.
(NOTE: from the Log of Liz Dictator and Iron Will, _HE_ REALLY DOES care, even what people think about or laugh about - see later).
From Prev email to Liz: They are nothing but a pathetic reaction to "the big bad Negroes"
Nagy: I like Big Bad Negroes...'specially Dolomite!
From Prev email to Liz: that have destroyed the cities.
Nagy: If they would just turn down their Ghetto Blasters...
From Prev email to Liz: Who let them destroy the cities?
Nagy: Maybe I did. Seriously, I like Negros far more than I think I would like you. They are fun in a Sambo sorta way. They are loud. I dig em. They do more by 5 am than Tani does all day :)
From Prev email to Liz: Nazis hated Jews because they regarded Jews as a SATANIC, DEMONIC race - RACE - not religion.
Nagy: So? Who cares? They were destroyed, who cares...tell em to quit whining...
Yes, the Nazis were destroyed: they didn't have to be if they stopped in 1939.
By the way, I am Hungarian and my ancestors would not have been cool with Adolf, but I think he is cool in a Dictator kinda way. Whoopie. Adolf was not a dictator at all, he was quite liberal as far as things went - unless you were the wrong race. Otherwise he was in no way a dictator and quite liberal as things go.
From Prev email to Liz: Goldhagen has proven this now using the undefiled truth and hard proof. Why did they think Jews were satanic and demonic? Because Jews were SO SO SMART, they just got ahead at ANYTHING they did,
Nagy: Well someone with more power put a halt to that...Might is Right...
Jewish Might is Right? I'd like to skin Soros alive. Whatever. I'm not Jewish btw. Not related to that race at all.
Nagy: quit whining, some of my favorite folks are Jews and Blacks.
From Prev email to Liz: they are a TINY minority yet they are so influential in EVERYTHING; they rise up and literally CONTROL EVERYTHING.
Nagy: More power to their collective fat asses. I mean that.
Why are you responding to this as if you are Liz. Sheesh. Jeff? You are on the CC. NOT in the TO portion.
From Prev email to Liz: That was the Nazi reason to hate them. They couldn't compete.
Nagy: They couldn't compete? What planet are you from. Not only did the Nazi's compete, they changed the playing field and the game dahlin'. And bye and bye, I may like Hitler, but I do not like Nazis.
Yeah, they certainly did change the playing field - so much so that I couldn't find a "really Aryan looking" German when I tried. They killed off their best people due to that war. He should have stopped in 1939.
From Prev email to Liz: Let's have Affirmative Action then: FOR ARYANS.
From Prev email to Liz: You know nothing of what Communism was THERE in the literal land of ice and darkness - for that is the ONLY place it ever existed and it lasted for about 15 years before a war destroyed everything these people built with their own hands.
Nagy: As Boyd Rice would say: "Too Fucking Bad".
From Prev email to Liz: Nonetheless, smashed to the ground, they managed to rise up using nothing but their WILL TO POWER and become a SUPERPOWER - and beat the USA into space.
Nagy: Let em have space...little space ghettos would be good.
From Prev email to Liz: Those are my people that did that. SATANIC RACE - oh yes. Who do you think the Satanic race is?
Nagy: I would figure that to be the folks who are Satanists, regardless of color, sexuality, or monetary status.
From Prev email to Liz: Race shows in the face: DOC LOOKED LIKE ONE OF US.
Nagy: One of us?
From Prev email to Liz: Whether or not Rev. Ventrue "knows you" is irrelevant to me. He loves the "hierarchy" when they let him get away with things. But when he lies to one and gets called on it he no longer loves ALL the hierarchy.
Nagy: So, in one letter you are accusing myself, a Magister, and Rev Ventrue of heinous indescretions. What is your deal, missy?
Where am I accusing you of being Liz? I am showing you what I wrote Liz who has tried to make people believe she is either you or your wife. Learn to read more carefully - especially the "cc" portion versus the "to" portion.
From Prev email to Liz: These non-whites work faster and better than Americans.
Nagy: Finally, a point to be agreed upon, even if it bears no significant relavance to anything that this letter is about.
For the 10th time: I am answering things Liz brought up. You did not bring it up, god dammit. Liz did. You are getting a cc. Nothing to get so flustered about.
From Prev email to Liz: but you weren't born yet - none of you were. Ah ha!
Nagy: Now youth is a crime? Get real.
From Prev email to Liz: I take NO JOY in arguments or conflicts.
Nagy: Then why are you writing this little letter. If it looks like conflict, smells like conflict...there is a chance it could be just that.
It is my effort - and success in fact, at ENDING IT - with Liz. You don't care that someone uses your account and poses as you or your wife?
From Prev email to Liz: Peggy Nadramia asked me to get proof for something that was bothering new COS members and potential members - and even some that had been with COS a long time. I told Jeff Nagy this.
From Prev email to Liz: He agreed with doing it.
Nagy: Jeff Nagy agreed to NO SUCH thing. You told me that you hated Andre and that he was bad for business. You were out to get him. You said Peggy asked for proof.
Just a second: I do not know Andre Schlesinger. I hated what he was DOING and had received tons of complaints.
Nagy: I said merely that that sounds solid: if you are to accuse someone have proof. It was not a blanket endorsement of your silly campaign...are we clear?
I had no campaign. I would not bother to have so many collecting logs and such to give to Peter had not someone asked for "proof." You are the one who hated him because you found the internet scene a shambles. You were afraid if Andre got booted out, with all the information he knew, he could hurt the COS. You wanted him out of the COS! Jeff, I have the log of the conversation. I then said, OK, email that you are Nagy (you were Trocar in the chat log) and say I have permission to tell Ole and Vad what you said. You emailed me - and I email forwarded it to Ole and Vad! Jeff, I have the entire log. You forgot? Some highlights from it are that Andre kicked you from satannet, you put a stop to it; he attacked you and others; Here: [01:23]
(NOTE: I PUT IN COPY PASTE SOME HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE LOG THAT IS IN THIS DOCUMENT. I WILL EDIT IT OUT OF HERE BUT UNDERSTAND THE EMAIL AND CC RECIPIENTS ALL GOT TO SEE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE LOG. I REFRESHED HIS MEMORY....)
As to anyone seeing this and finding out Trocar is you - lol, everyone on that chat room told me the big secret - so they already knew.
Nagy: Never mention me in the same sentence as yourself ever again. Period.
I shall quote you from above: "I would never cut down someone Doc hand picked...not my style."
From Prev email to Liz: EVERYONE KNEW I'd show her, or Peter - AND JEFF whatever evidence I got. I was objective in one way:
Nagy: You were far from objective.
I most certainly was: 1. I did not know any of the parties involves. 2. I merely collected and sent it - I didn't even read all of it since it meant nothing to me, I didn't know the parties.
From Prev email to Liz: I didn't know ANY of the people involved.
Nagy: Yes, you did.
(NOTE: AS A MATTER OF FACT: I DID NOT KNOW ANY OF THEM!!! PEG AND PETE KNEW THIS ALL TOO WELL. NAGY AND THE WHOLE REST ASSUMED I DID SINCE I MERELY SET THE TONE EACH TIME TO THE TONE THE OTHER PERSON SET FOR ME, AND MIMICED IT. POOR PEGGY, SHE DOESN'T KNOW. BAD ANDRE, TERRIBLE PERSON. ANDRE CREATED EGAN, IT IS HIS PROBLEM. BLAH BLAH BLAH.)
No I don't. Talking with a stranger in chat is not knowing them. Right here, you are behaving as if I wrote this to you, when it's TO LIZ. Yet I sent YOU music tapes, the same ones Doc loved of that kind of old music - and that ought to be very informative about my age - which I had already told you.
From Prev email to Liz: I had MANY helpers - after all, I was not online that much and could not gather all that myself. Repeat, I had MANY HELPERS. When asked to do something, however, Yes, I am thorough. Now you know. You didn't really want to know. But now you know. Stay the hell out of my face. I DO NOT CARE if you are an official.
Nagy: Your lack of respect for other officials is quite evident. My question is, if you have such a problem with folks Doc LaVey hand picked, why are you still here.
I have no respect for a person that does what Liz did - which is IDENTICAL in sentence structure and style, to what Red of Tasc does. And she has done it to EVERYONE, two notables that she did it a lot to were Sir Chaos and Nate Perry.
Two rules about Tani ever e-mailing me again:
Rule #1: She will not e-mail me agian.
Rule #2: She will not e-mail me again.
I hope your war against a nobody is over, and one last time...I have no clue as to who this Liz chick is, so get off my back.
17. NOW FOR THE COUP DE GRACE? NAGY IS A LIAR: LIZ IS HIS WIFE OR HIMSELF.
-NickServ- Info for BabyE: -NickServ- Last seen address : LizD@AC91D070.ipt.aol.com -NickServ- Last seen time : Wed 05/17/2000 07:09:15 GMT -NickServ- Time registered : Thu 01/06/2000 00:22:55 GMT -NickServ- Time now : Tue 05/30/2000 08:26:10 GMT -NickServ- Options: Enforced -NickServ- *** End of Info ***
NOTE THE "AC" FOR ADDRESS. BabyE IS RACHELLE NAGY.
It is NAUSEATING that Doctor would choose these kinds of people to be ANYTHING in his COS. NAUSEATING. Not only are they LYING and CONNIVING for no reason except pure cowardice, but they don't have the COURAGE to back up their own "hard line Nazi, foot-stomping skin head" CONVICTIONS! They are a FACTION within the COS, just like I proved Aquino to be in 1972, that wants to DICTATE what gets thought about, joked about, talked about - even how we greet each other. And they, their own words, PROVE that what Egan said about "fascists taking over" is 100% TRUE and that's the WORST PART OF IT ALL. What is SO bad is that the new enemies think Peter Gilmore is their Fuehrer and/or that this VOMIT is coming from HP Blanche Barton herself. FASCISM: what exists in South America - a FEW people in cahoots with BIG business and the CIA, military dictatorship and everyone else rots in hell. THAT is fascism. ONE LEADER - no one else allowed to THINK even, and they all HAVE FAITH, OBEY, and FIGHT for what: everyone with a brain knows: GOD, FAMILY VALUES ALA CHRISTIANITY (definitely) AND NATION. Yet they are puppets of the CIA (used to be puppets of the POPE awhile back) and nothing more. THAT is fascism. Naziism is SOCIALISM - just like Karl Marx - only it's RACIST and not just all Germans including German Jews. It's also RELIGIOUS: for German CHRISTIANS - and they didn't want Jews that converted at all no matter how Germanized for 4 generations they were. THERE IS THE REALITY.
I also KNOW that they are too stupid to talk politics with me - none of these people in amore with fascism (sex sex) know what fascism is: to them it's LAUGHING at the letter a child survivor of a concentration camp wrote, or "Ilse She Beast of the SS" - one of the most LOATHSOME movies ever made. NONE of them can talk about what National Socialism is, OR what Hitler was (a SOCIALIST for Germans only; a man who gave LABOR BACK to the workers hence stealing them from Communists who, back then, were following orders from Moscow and had their own local Communist parties riddled with Jews who they HATED.) NONE of them know this - not any of it.
Nagy is ALSO the person who trashed ALMOST-COS member Andy Jones for talking about physics to ANY INTERESTED PARTY on that god damned chat room. Those logs were long ago shown to Peter. Vad was HORRIFIED by what he saw. And what, is this a fuck up or what - they made Nagy the hub of Vad's grotto when he's in OUR GANG (TOTALLY open, TOTALLY trusted and nothing less!) and has OUR STUFF all up on his website? What a DISASTER just waiting to happen: yet another one. Setting up obstacles in one's own path only predicted to make you all have to GET HURT and have to CLEAN UP another mess is NOT satanic. It's brain damaged christian behavior to the MAX. It was a disaster waiting to happen even BEFORE this shit happened. Vad and those guys hate fascism and find it about as COSMIC YAWN boring and SUFFOCATING as I do. They are also highly intellectual people while Nagy is an ANTI-intellectual to the max. Go figure.
end of this document.
Trivia in addendum. What manner of people are these that are repressive, regulating, and filled to the brim with christian-type pretentions and christian morality (except for when they want to get into kinky torture sex imagery)? What manner of people are these that start MAJOR trouble over such nothing issues?
Liz Dictator's usual run of the mill conversations consist of coming onto a chat room and interroating everyone on there, one by one, asking questions, answering questions with snide assumption-like remarks or downright being a total bitch for no reason except, to sum it up: "If you don't agree with me on everything then you are a fucking moron."
Liz Dictator - Rachelle Nagy it turns out, was as sweet as can be to me, she sent me her photograph with her son and asked me to "Do not show it to anyone, OH PLEASE ." and then she commences to trash me, slander me and try to lie about who she is by sending other people pictures of Marcilla (Alice Looking) claiming them to be pictures of Liz, which are found out soon enough? Why did she send me her photo if she didn't want ANYONE to see it? She doesn't know me. I'm a total stranger. We already know why she started shit with me - and everyone else. Then Nagy asks ME if I'm bipolar? Ha ha ha. No. I'm not. The serious question then is: does she KNOW she did all this or was that "some other personality" maybe?
Ygraine vascillates between pretensions of aristocracy, fussing about her breeding, and spewing out fundie morality to the max, morals and all - and flaming people for being FAT. She is almost a stereotypical comedy clone of the "petit bourgoisie." In phone conversation, which was friendly, chit chat occurred where I mentioned I love the beach and go all the time. So in her flaming mode the only thing she can think of to say to me is "I hope you get melanoma?" How original. How petty and stupid. Her "nice polite version" is that Peggy is busy, Peggy feels responsible, Peggy doesn't know Andre is such a terrible person," you know, the "polite excuse" bit. What if she fell out again with the COS? What would the revised nasty version be? Let us use our imaginations. It's not hard. She is OVERLY enthusiastic about blathering on to me about every single detail (which I really didn't need for evidence) and seems excited. Then she slumps into frothing hysteria. And SHE talks about bipolar? She picks up on things that have NOTHING to do with anything pertinent and uses this to flame someone. How very FCOS of her. Someone is fat. OH MY GOD. (I'm not so I don't give a fuck about it.) Someone used a pseudonym to write a sci fi story - hey, these things are not secrets. These people are fucking nuts. They are refuse from christian society, the worst sort of it. FCOS's flames were that there was a fascist element in the COS trying to take over. Looks like his flame was THE TRUTH which makes it all the worse.
I'll reiterate here something I wrote Peggy in answer to a question she asked me:
Sorry for taking so long to get back to the subject of "Why I so strenuously object to the recent 'they are my BOSSES' stuff going on," but this is not a thing that can be answered in ONE sentence - and that you even ASKED ME that, is very strange. Have you forgotten the past so quickly? Have you forgotten things? Or did you never know these things?
The Pythagorean Masons, the REAL defacto (LaVey definition) Satanists that founded this country wrote a document, wrote many documents in fact. These documents are AGAINST ALL such notions of bosses of FREE PEOPLE. Their concept of Freedom: Liberty, Equity and Unity were UNIQUE in the world. IN THE WORLD mind you. NO OTHER association of free people EVER EXISTED ANYWHERE like these associations. You should already know this. Maybe you don't REALLY know it. After all, I was "brainwashed" oooops, TAUGHT all that Satanic stuff from the age of FOUR TO TWELVE after being BORN INTO it! Indoctrinated one might say JUST LIKE other people from other schools are ALSO indoctrinated and indoctrinated by their own families - from the crib on up, as I wrote you TRUCK LOADS of information on it ages ago.
Later with the coming of mass production and profiteering, came more MASONS, oh yes, with analysis of the new industrialized system and more words about FREE PEOPLE AND BOSSES in this brand new, never seen before, economic situation. And the RIGHTS OF FREE MAN. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Even people, UNIQUE IN THE WORLD, like Marx and Dzerzhinsky HAD THE SAME CONCEPTS. They were SUPERIOR PEOPLE, Peggy - TRULY superior. They were NOT klippothic mediocrities with lousy attitudes POSING as "elite." They are from people who do everything BUT claim to be "elite" or "superior." We are notably NOT ostentacious; we tread LIGHTLY and with REAL DIGNITY. What others think of us NEVER sways us. NEVER WILL.
A Boss is a person who tells you what to do WHEN you are doing HIS STUFF and BEING PAID for your labor. THAT is a boss, you are free to work FOR him or quit. Nothing else is a boss. You have the right to work FOR him and be paid a REASONABLE AMOUNT (LIVEABLE WAGE) for that labor or quit. BEWARE a person who tries to be over you for reasons not related to labor - and above all: BEWARE the person that MAKES YOU INTO his boss when you are NOT a boss by this definition for that is a person with NO HEAD AND NO HEART. He is a PARASITE that clings to you as HIS HEAD. He is a grown person that "needs guidance" and hence has NO CHARACTER AT ALL. That type should not even BE IN the COS - let alone be a fucking Priest. This is not some Jesus shit where you get 5 bucks for a day and another gets 10 and it's ok cause you made that deal so if you ask for more (since the other gets more) that "coveting." RUBBISH. Or where one is "altruestic" and all they get is a card that lets them go around PRETENDING to be Little Lord Fauntleroy on a Throne. The people who founded and wrote these DOCTRINES for FREE PEOPLE were NOT into Jesus's parables or Jesus (I'm a King, elite, chosen, elect) behavior. They were FANATICALLY AGAINST ALL FORMS of DICTATORSHIP, especially the type that existed during their day involving the unity of ALTAR with THRONE.
So, hearing these same "you are my boss" types prattling on about how the COS is a dictatorship makes me EXPLODE. GET IT? In case you don't realize it, it has made a lot of other people EXPLODE TOO and they are either forming other factions or just agreeing with them in principle and not letting you know who they really are. And when or if you say one word to "defend" this type that loves dictators, they WILL turn against you.
What is this - an organization of MONKEYS? Big, threatening, all-powerful orangutan has the only say? I am not a MONKEY - in allegory if it meant a THING to you, we say "I AM A SERPENT" and that means to be innately OPPOSED to the "monkey forms" - that is, those fucking hierarchies that consist in fact, in real life, of POWER HUNGRY empty klippoths and their mindless herd followers. We are TRULY another TYPE of human being, innately born and then NURTURED to be NOTHING LIKE the PRIMATES out there and the rest of the headless HERD that want to be TOLD what to do, what to think, what to say, who BRING really evil people into power to ruin lives and nations. This is where I could honestly theorize that we are MORE EVOLVED - and yes, TRULY SUPERIOR. Tho we never SAID such things. We know who DOES say them, however.
Our kind are EXPECTED to be able to BE Free People (workers, MASONS in the past - the guilds they were FREE HIRED LABOR in case you don't realize that) and expected to handle that just fine. When such honest labor became spoiled and corrupted, ruined by OVERLORDS, our people pulled off REVOLUTIONS - THAT IS HISTORY. The "head person" or Elder or highest degree was ONLY the head because he knew how to DO things - he could TEACH to those who were already deemed worthy in character - CHARACTER a big word among us. There is NO hierarchy, NO boss. The degrees are in fact NOTHING in that sense. A cooperative of individuals each DOING what piece he can do well and finishing the work. We are up front, to the face, eye to eye - SPEAKING FROM THE HEART as one Brother/Sister to another. THAT is the Satanic way and always was. The rest is PURE christian or Islam or worse - it's MONKEY, otherwise known as the sickening, revolting "Fuehrer Prinzip." Respect for a person does not ever mean, never meant, fawning all over the person as an IDOL. It does NOT mean he is The Big Head that thinks for you - NOR does it mean he is infallable which is what the Chinese, fresh out of believing their Emporer was a god, thought about Mao: which REALLY fucked up the whole country. Respect given to one that is feared, to one who uses bully tactics or coersion is NOT respect at all: it's loathing yet groveling before the feared one - just wait till THEY get their hands on the knife. Respect to us is EARNED. Those that respect Phil and I in the COS don't tend to make it personal (they don't know us save for very few) - they respect the information we put out there and gave them. And they had the brains and ability to grasp it and CHECK IT.
I told you ENOUGH already of what's going on regardng the chat and internet scene - and Mag Nagy (who also seems to have a bit of "hierarchy INFECTION left over from HIS upbringing or whatever other klippoths he sees in society that he thinks are "cool") could have told you the same thing: IT IS A FUCKING SHAMBLES, A MESS. TOO MANY of these people act as if PAYING MONEY to join an organization that GIVES YOU NOTHING and then submitting to Fascism, is normal! It's PURE FUCKING KLIPPOTH, OK? What aren't you seeing about that? YOU might find it hard to believe, but the intimidation and then the PRETENDED respect for hierarchy (only if said hierarchs let them get away with what shit they are doing.... but not for ones that CALL THEM on it or who behave in a different manner and DON'T intimidate others or want to)... even the business about it taking 6 months OR LONGER for a person who shells out a 100 dollars to get his "little red card" - EVEN THAT - is uncalled for. I have heard from people who paid money and NEVER got the red card and they showed me their cancelled checks - I showed Peter at least one email back in September from a known writer - NO, I don't have it anymore. That's BAD NEWS especially IF you are a corporation. If you don't intend to give them the damned card - RETURN THEIR MONEY. What is this, EGO GAMES? "Testing people to see if they are patient?" That's utter rubbish. MY TEST would demand that said person SUE said corporation if card is not delivered in a TIMELY FASHION: that would be what ONE OF US would do. We don't raise our kind to be DOORMATS. Only a person with NO dignity or character would stand for such treatment FROM ANYONE. That would be OUR test and I do believe and can PROVE, OUR tests are far better than anything the COS can dream up. You admit that these fucking cretins have to "get directives" from you, as if you are their boss or their mother, due to their ATROCIOUS behavior toward what SHOULD BE considered a Brother (or Sister). WHY? I could have written the directive myself but oh, they wouldn't listen? WHY NOT? Because they are lying two faced slimes that talk out of two sides of their mouths? YES? A person that writes to me (but not to other "mere members") and claims to be "merely a member" as if that's nothing (!) is expected to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK when treated in a manner by a "supposed to be Brother" that would have landed said bastard with a bloody nose had he DARED to treat Phil or me that way? And then claim "they are over it" but oh? Writing me the details? NOT over it. LYING TO ONESELF. MORE klippoths. One klippoth is one too many. COS never EVER realized that.
I'm still the SAME INDIVIDUAL that came to you guys 11 years ago with SATANISM, the history of it and the doctrines. I stand in the CENTER of the House (pentagon) and am not budged, I stand in the center out of which FIVE directions spring out. (Yeah, not four like the compass or the cross). Nothing changes that, no title not anything. What, after all, is that title? Is it from the PEOPLE who are and were the MAKERS of what is good in society and in this country, the PEOPLE who are the KEEPERS of the real traditions? No; it's not. It's from Doc the Maestro.
One other thing notable amongst us is that we NEVER "take on a task" we CAN NOT do - and we have enough FORESIGHT to calculate in obstacles that will arise when taking on any task. ASK ME to do something, if I say YES to that I will DELIVER and in a timely fashion. If I say no, I say no freely and there is NOTHING WRONG with saying no or "I can't." There is nothing wrong with saying "I DO NOT KNOW."